[Gertie]

no thank you Gertie...I've found some at Autostyle...I'm just waiting for my BIL to go there and get them, maybe they have longer bolts?

:thumbup: - glad you came right there.

Quick OTHER question.

A 66.6 centre bore to a 56.1 centre bore...is a spigot ring needed?

You mean 65.1?
PCD Alfa Romeo Giulietta (2010 - ) 5x110 wheels | PCD, Offset, Center Bore, mounting and tire size data

Always best to get the right spigot, yes.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-66-6MM...-65-1MM-66-6-65-1-ALLOY-WHEEL-SPIGOT-RINGS-SPACER-RINGS-HUB-RINGS-/151347275698

 

[Guili]

Yes, sorry, typo.

65.1

 

[corriedw]

RE bolt length - we always used to say the 5 full turns is the minimum acceptable length.

Standard principle: A 12mm bolt should screw 12mm in, that is 9.6 turns.

 

[Ian Lusso]

Standard principle: A 12mm bolt should screw 12mm in, that is 9.6 turns.

provided that it is screwing into similar material and thread pitch is 1.25mm. But that's not what I wanted to say: To be safe, measure how far yout wheel bolts turn in then make sure you have the same amount of turns on your new bolt.

 

[Guili]

here is a brain jerker for you tech guys...

I got the wobbly bolts and they allowed the fitment of a 5x112 wheel to the 5x110 hub, but the rim design is flat therefore it catches the brake caliper slightly. We then test fitted 20'' wheels in the same size(5x112, ET 45 and CB of 66.6) this time with my hub centric spacers for a 5x110 car ith the longer bolts that came with the spacers, not the wobble bolts, and can you believe that they fit?? How is this possible? The same spacer and bolts I've use for my 5x110 wheels, now I swopped to 5x112 wheels and they fit perfectly.

What I've seen is the longer spacer bolts have the exact same design as the wobble bolt at the head, a kind of a shim that allows for the movement of a couple o mm's. But this bolt does not move. The car drives fine on the quick test I did, I'll go and do another test soon just to be sure, but please explain this to me.

 

[Ian Lusso]

here is a brain jerker for you tech guys...

I got the wobbly bolts and they allowed the fitment of a 5x112 wheel to the 5x110 hub, but the rim design is flat therefore it catches the brake caliper slightly. We then test fitted 20'' wheels in the same size(5x112, ET 45 and CB of 66.6) this time with my hub centric spacers for a 5x110 car ith the longer bolts that came with the spacers, not the wobble bolts, and can you believe that they fit?? How is this possible? The same spacer and bolts I've use for my 5x110 wheels, now I swopped to 5x112 wheels and they fit perfectly.

What I've seen is the longer spacer bolts have the exact same design as the wobble bolt at the head, a kind of a shim that allows for the movement of a couple o mm's. But this bolt does not move. The car drives fine on the quick test I did, I'll go and do another test soon just to be sure, but please explain this to me.

Lance this isn't magic or alchemy. Yes it will fit. If you have the cb correct and the wheel located correctly then they will fit. The bolt holes are 2mm in diamater wider than the bolt so you can use the stock bolts to attach the wheel.

The problem is: With variator bolts, the conical bush has play to transmit the clamping force directly to the seat even when it is offset. Now with the stock bolts the force is transmitted only on the inner arc of the bolt holes because they are 1mm closer to the center of the wheel.

 

[Ian Lusso]

Wait. That explanation is clumsy. Imagine two concentric circles. One with 110mm diameter and one with 112mm diameter. Now imagine a 12mm hole on the 110mm diameter circle and a 14mm hole on the 112mm diameter circle. The 14mm hole will be big enough to accomodate the 12mm hole on the 110mm circle if they were lined up, but they would not be concentric. That is what is happening here. The bolt is 12mm thick and the hole through which it fits in the rim is 14mm in diameter.

The danger of fitting bolts like this is that they won't seat fully in the conical seat even once fully torqued. This means that there is a possibility that the wheel can come loose during hard driving.

 

[Guili]

Huh???

That wheels is tight AF but I have only gone to 120kph and still dont feel comfortable...i STILL cannot understand it.

 

[Guili]

How I understand your explanation is similar to a wobble bolt...

 

[GatoGT]

How I understand your explanation is similar to a wobble bolt...

If you really like your new rims, have the pcd changed,i.e engineered places like Domingo's do it,Alfas are their speciality. Minty's and Tiger wheels can also send out wheels to be done. Then no problems with bolts and you can feel safe with the wheels on at high speeds. This change could cost about R600 - 800 for four. I've done this on three sets of rims over the years and no problems whatsoever. Obviously the rim itself must be good quality.

 

[Ian Lusso]

If you really like your new rims, have the pcd changed,i.e engineered places like Domingo's do it,Alfas are their speciality. Minty's and Tiger wheels can also send out wheels to be done. Then no problems with bolts and you can feel safe with the wheels on at high speeds. This change could cost about R600 - 800 for four. I've done this on three sets of rims over the years and no problems whatsoever. Obviously the rim itself must be good quality.

I would go with this option. Have additional holes drilled into your wheels.

 

[Ian Lusso]

How I understand your explanation is similar to a wobble bolt...

Lance, imagine a 14mm circle. Inside this circle is a 12mm circle. The 12mm circle is touching the 14mm circle at one point.

That is what is happening when you torque your wheels: All the clamping force has to pass through this point, where a concentric circle would have the force transmitted through out the diameter of the circle.

 

[Guili]

No the wheels are replicas...so quality is questionable.

I'll just have 15mm pcd change spacers made to 5x112...Ian explain that story of yours a little bit better please.aperbag:

 

[Ian Lusso]

No the wheels are replicas...so quality is questionable.

I'll just have 15mm pcd change spacers made to 5x112...Ian explain that story of yours a little bit better please.aperbag:

Wait. Gonna need drawings. And not in the office this week :depressed:

 

[Guili]

Wobble bolt and the magic of the concentric cirlce

Thanks Ian...the wheels are heavy, but in D mode the car is so amazing it nullifies the weight of the wheels, it accelerates as if there's 17's on there.:smash:

But, my normal extended spacer bolt, look exactly like a wobble bolt, but they do not have the shim that moves the 2.4mm allowing to seat the rim.

My thinking is...get 5x112 pcd change spacers, or go to an engineering shop and have them make me longer bolts in the same spec as the wobble bolts and only use the wobble bolt's shim on the new longer bolts...how that's idea? Can you sign that off enginerically...biglaugh::jester


PCD Variation bolts, wobble bolts

 

[Guili]

Here is a great 'wheel' link...
SERPENT AUTOSPORT Accessories

 

[Ian Lusso]

If your current wheel bolts have a flat seat and not a conical ceat then you can use the variation bolt's conical seat on it. If not, then no.

This is approximately what an Alfa wheel bolt looks like. Unfortunately it has a conical seat: http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/images/spacers/wheel_bolt_measuring_1.jpg

A variation bolt has a flat seat with a loose fitting conical collar: http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/1/1/6/1/5/7/webimg/484273382_o.jpg

 

[Guili]

Yes that's what I'm saying...engineer longer flat seat bolts.

 

[Giorget2]

The bolts for the 156 Ti wheels also have the loose fitting 60-degree conical collar. Different from the wheel bolts for all the other wheels.

 

[Guili]

Why though?

Any way, my friend is going to make some bolts for me here in our workshop.:smoker: