[Andy Bowden]

Yes - I wouldn't miss the S/S, but unfortunately it is on the same circuit as the heated rear screen..

I don't think that is exactly true.
It's just that the hrw is disabled if the battery charge is below a threshold, not necessarily the same threshold as s/s.
Before opting for @epsonix's gadget, I would often have s/s inoperative whilst the hrw was OK. In fact, I've never noticed hrw problems, perhaps just because the car is normally garaged.

 

[U696783]

I don't think that is exactly true.
It's just that the hrw is disabled if the battery charge is below a threshold, not necessarily the same threshold as s/s.
Before opting for @epsonix's gadget, I would often have s/s inoperative whilst the hrw was OK. In fact, I've never noticed hrw problems, perhaps just because the car is normally garaged.

I think you are technically correct, but it suffers from the same power restrictions in that my HRW works in summer when the battery is happy, but doesnt in winter when the battery is under strain. - useful....

 

[epsonix]

S&S threshold 65% SoC, HRW 50% SoC.
without S&S deactivator people are around 65% unless they drive only high mileages then they got to 80% or so (and if they brake enough often), above 85% it is possible only with charger (thanks to "inteligent" battery charging which has nothin in common with intelligent) and quickly goes down to 75% again thanks to intelligent battery charging and to 65% thanks to S&S (lets go green/eco etc, but lets replace battery every 2-3 years and leave a few kgs of lead, acid and plastic)

FYI, I'm working on "inteliigent charging" killer device at very moment, got all talks reverse engineered, doing prototype of the device right now, and expeciting in produciton Nov.

 

[rumandcoke]

S&S threshold 65% SoC, HRW 50% SoC.
without S&S deactivator people are around 65% unless they drive only high mileages then they got to 80% or so (and if they brake enough often), above 85% it is possible only with charger (thanks to "inteligent" battery charging which has nothin in common with intelligent) and quickly goes down to 75% again thanks to intelligent battery charging and to 65% thanks to S&S (lets go green/eco etc, but lets replace battery every 2-3 years and leave a few kgs of lead, acid and plastic)

FYI, I'm working on "inteliigent charging" killer device at very moment, got all talks reverse engineered, doing prototype of the device right now, and expeciting in produciton Nov.

Out of interest, how does s/s prevent proper charge, even if it isn't cutting in? I thought it was more to do with the IBS holding the alternator off, and s/s being a symptom of the flaws in that system rather than not working itself.
I fitted a battery charge monitor at the weekend, the car hasn't been used since Sunday and is sitting at around 12.45 - 12.5 V and 70-75% SoC and has been all week after hitting near 90% shortly after use. I realise that's lower than ideal, and seems to drop quite a way in the couple of hours after use but it is higher than I expected - I had assumed I would see less than 65% as s/s doesn't work.

The parameters used, posted earlier in the thread, are no different to any other manufacturers system as far as I can see I'm sure most modern cars also have very similar IBS systems and I doubt that either were engineered from scratch and built in house - the sub system supplier I'm sure supplies basically the same thing to other manufacturers. I can't see which of the s/s parameters is not being met, so other than the IBS having a different view on SoC and feeding that into the computer it remains a mystery.

 

[U696783]

To be clear my beef is not that s/s gives up after a time (that does appear to be common to other makes), but it also cuts out other items I consider to be safety related - like the HRW.
I have not had a working HRW for nearly two years - except in the summer, when it starts working just to annoy me!

 

[epsonix]

@rumandcoke
OF course if S&S is not kicking it does not prevents charging above 65%, I meant situation that whenever one exceeds 65%, then S&S will kick and SoC will go down again - usually oscillates around 65%.

A lot of modern cars use better battery (AGM) and often separate small AGM battery for S&S.

With S&S you will be around 65%, below 50% heated rear window won't work, so if on 65% you part for say a week, there is chance (with all energy vampires in the car like alarm, keyless entry etc) that on first trip you won't have demistifier

Not sure what your car reasons for not kicking S&S are, without connecting OBD interface and looking with MES hard to guess.

 

[Andy Bowden]

The start/stop is not a cause, but a symptom.
The intelligent charging system design of the Giulia is such that the alternator only charges the battery whilst braking unless the BCM/IBS measures the battery State of Charge (SoC) as under a threshold. I bow to @epsonix's better knowledge of what the thresholds are.
The BCM/IBS very rarely sees the SoC as anything over 80%, in my experience. Other devices measure SoC in different ways and may report a higher SoC.

 

[Navlet]

This is interesting, I assumed having SS on was a cause of low battery due to it constantly having to crank the starter motor. In urban traffic start stop could kick in a dozen times at one junction thus draining the battery quickly ?

 

[epsonix]

I assumed having SS on was a cause of low battery due to it constantly having to crank the starter motor

yes, its exactly like this to get your battery to around 65% SoC - longterm such pre maturely elders your battery reducing its max capacity (Ah), acid density etc. Then there are other reasons to get you lower than 65% - long stay, playing with radio waiting for somebody, these who have Alfa Connected Services device need to communicate with Alfa centers etc.

Solution is a few things:
1.Do not use S&S (you gain around 10% extra SoC and oscillate around 75% if using car normally, maybe 80-85% if driving really a lot and daily)
2.From time to time get battery fully charged - here as far people use CTEKs, especially if battery already was running for long not charged enough, needs to run with RECOND function on (refreshing battery, improves acid density). When I get my charging improver on market, then it may not be anymore need to use CTEK (or very rarelly), say we start from fresh/good condition battery and drive enough to keep it well charged, then acid density/battery SoC will stay high for long - every longer ride will not reduce charging above 75% SoC but will continue.

 

[Andy Bowden]

This time, I don't exactly agree with @epsonix.
In the situation where you start an urban journey with a well charged battery, the stop/start function will be operative, subject to the myriad of other criteria involved.
At some point, particularly if s/s kicks in a lot, the SoC will drop below the s/s threshold and s/s becomes inoperative. That is just as you would hope for, as you don't want s/s to drain the battery very low.
However, that's when the 'intelligent' battery system's logic plays its part. Depending on the nature of the rest of the drive, IBS is unlikely to get get the battery charge back up over the threshold so that s/s stays unavailable.
Even if one has s/s disabled permanently by means of the switch, or as I have by means of @epsonix's gadget, the IBS will generally not get the battery SoC up higher than 80%.
Perhaps, if you're doing a spirited drive using the brakes a lot, a higher SoC can result.
After I had driven 1000 miles in a week using a lot of Autoroutes/Autostrade ending up in Abruzzo, MES logged my SoC as 68%. s/s disabled all the way naturally.
Maybe one day I'll drive over the Stelvio and see what the SoC is up to when I get down the other side!

Who cares about the fact that s/s is rarely available on Giulia's?

The fact that the hrw may not be working is important.

 

[epsonix]

I think I said exactly the same Thats why I said that my new gadget for killing intelligent battery charging will be necessary so there will be:
a)chance to charge to 99% during long drive (currenly 80ish possible)
b)once charged, we will have still full charging so that 99% (currenly will drop to 80% in 1-2 short journeys due to lack of charging above) will stay as long as you dive something more reasonable than1-2 mile journeys (as such will always be energy deficitive), or whenever say you manage to loose a few % of SoC on short journeys, next say 20mile journey will reload you to full.

 

[rumandcoke]

Who cares about the fact that s/s is rarely available on Giulia's?

The fact that the hrw may not be working is important.

Well, yes, exactly. I fitted a battery monitor to warn of just that and give me the ammo to push for a replacement under warranty if necessary although I expect I'll just buy one for convenience. Was surprised to see the s/s SoC parameter being met, is all.

 

[Andy Bowden]

I think that the Giulia's battery state of charge being generally 60-70%, if the car is being used quite a lot or lower if the car isn't used much, is being interpreted by owners and dealers alike as an indication that the battery is faulty. Whereas, it's a design 'feature' of the IBS.

My battery was totally flattened once a bit over 2 years ago, due to my failure to shut the car down properly, I believe, but there is no sign that it's near end of life yet.

I did try to get a replacement battery then under warranty, but didn't succeed.

Certainly, there is every likelihood that the IBS failing to ever get the SoC to 100% will adversely affect battery longevity, but I've no reason to suppose I won't get 5+ years out of mine. Only time will tell, of course.

It is a wise move to use a CTEK or other good charger to get the battery fully charged from time to time to offset the effect of the IBS' logic.

 

[cue2]

One physical cause of battery drain I read was the bonnet latches sending a message when not fully engaged. Or am I confusing things here!

 

[rumandcoke]

One physical cause of battery drain I read was the bonnet latches sending a message when not fully engaged. Or am I confusing things here!

Don't think that would cause a battery drain, but might be another cause of s/s not working if battery SoC is high enough as bonnet being closed is one of the parameters, although wouldn't you get a little graphic on the screen like when the doors or boot are open?

 

[Andy Bowden]

Bonnet not shut is one of the criteria preventing s/s. I though also it could prevent the alarm being set and that in turn might result in battery drain, I suppose.

Graphic might not appear once you'd pressed STOP, perhaps.

 

[epsonix]

when bonnet is not properly closed there is big error on IPC that 'S&S is not available' (what a logic, shouldn't they say 'please close bonnet correctly')

 

[ParanoidPenguin]

Just in case relevant/helpful to anyone, back in June my Giulia (2.2) wouldn't start. Whilst I'd be using it regularly (at least weekly), this was during lock-down so usage was definitely down. Between that and it coming up with all manner of assorted errors on the dash, I assumed battery. Anyway - I tried again 5 minutes later and it started so I took it for a nice long run and it was fine.

For context, start-stop has very rarely worked for me, seemingly only ever kicking in when I didn't want in to. I went through a spell of disabling it at start-up, but since it increasingly didn't kick in anyway, I kind of just forgot about it.

This weekend, a day or two after having done a 200 mile motorway jaunt (so would have assumed fully charged), I took the car to the supermarket and the same happened again. Fortunately, 5 minutes later it started. I got the battery tested the following day and apparently it was showing about 65 cranking amps whereas it should have been 800. They also advised that for stop-start they estimate a 4 year battery lifespan, and mine was seemingly pretty dead after 3.5. I haven't used it enough to confirm if start-stop is active again now... I suspect it will be even though I'd prefer it wasn't

 

[Andy Bowden]

One would hope that battery life on a normal car with stop/start would not be shortened if one remembers to switch off or disable stop/start. However, the Giulia's perverse charging logic is such that battery longevity may be poor. I'm at the 3.5 year point too and there's no indication so far of the battery nearing end of life. Fingers crossed.

 

[rumandcoke]

I ran a CTEK RECON cycle on mine on Tuesday. Ran the de-stratification cycle for around 3 1/2 hours suggesting that the acid and water had separated. I had wondered if it had become a 50 or 60 Ah battery not an 80 Ah because of this.... and therefore below the 40Ah needed for s/s when at around 70% SoC.

Anyway, 98% SoC when i turned it off Tuesday evening, 85% this morning, which seems a rapid drop to me. What would be normal? I'm going to check the current draw with a multimeter, once I've worked out how to hold the boot courtesy light off.