I have had exactly the same problem with my 1.8 16v about 3 times in 7 years. Exact symptoms and I can also here what sounds like the cooling fan running when it refuses to start. Takes about 5 or 6 attempts and then finally chugs into life then is fine. never a problem when engine is hot just when startung from cold when it has been in direct sunlight, but again only very infrequent. I was talking to jimmybob about it only last week, he has never heard of it. I have no advice but it is reassuring to know I am not alone. If you find owt out let me know please

 

Same with all my previous Alfas. I reckon it's something to do with heat sink into the fuel. Maybe it vapourises in the line or something so you get a sort of vapour lock when you first turn it over.

 

Had the same on the Twinny!!! Used to start after flooring the throttle while cranking, switching off and then doing it again.

wrinx

 

Good to know I'm not alone!

I wonder if it might be a faulty air temp sensor, tell the engine the air is cold when in fact it is hot.

The next time it happens, I'll get out with my multimeter

You would imagine this is a much more serious issue in Italy!

 

I might have a solution for this problem, one of the ARTC members had the same problem.

One of our members (Alfa tec) told that there where production problems with some of the 16v eeproms of the main main ECU wich can give these problems.

Here in the Netherlands the dealers are told to replace these eeproms for free.

 

Maybe the heat under the bonnet is confusing a sensor and it thinks the engine is hot (as someone suggested). Maybe try cranking with just a little throttle when this happens.

Marlon

 

it happened again this afternoon

I noticed that the fuel injection light didn't go out as normal. - so the car 'knows' something is wrong.

Its reverted to normal now. Can anyone loan me a tester to read the memory, the Alfa garage wants £52 which is a real ripoff!

cheers

 

Mine does this as well if parked in the sun all day. Injector warning light stays on and engine won't start. Suspect it's a problem with the ECU as if I leave the doors open for 10-15 mins to let the inside of the car cool down it will start. The idea of a faulty EEPROM seems likely. Wonder what the chances of getting this confirmed are and getting a dealer to replace it for free now. Wonder if it was common to other cars using the same ECU ??

Dave

 

I've had this a couple of times too... I just thought it was vapourised fuel in the fuel line / injectors etc... but thinking about it, I reckon it's only happened from a cold start, so maybe the ECU gets confused with a cold engine and a hot (sun warmed) sensor?

 

I think it might be the air temp sensor. I disconnected and the light went out. Cooled it in some iced water(!) reconnected and still the light was out. Car then started normally.

Thinking about it this is the only part which could be a issue with air temp and not engine temp. Next time it happens I'll measure the resistance, anyone know what the values should be?

It might be worth investing in a new sendor anyway.

 

should be less than 1 ohm i think.
Thats what the leckies i work alongside keep preaching anyway

skinnyV6

 

To solve this problem, you have to replace the main EPROM in de ECU.
When the problem is there, just unplug the airtempsensor, start the car, wait a moment and replace the airsensor plug.
There is a fault in the eprom, when it is messuring hot air temp and the engine is cold.


Pieter
member 119
artc member 121
155 1.8 16V S

 

pieter thanks for that advice, it does make sense. Did alfa admit there was a fault?

The resistance shouln't be 1ohm, more in the region 100 to 2k ohms.

 

Interesting, I'll have to try that. Is the air temp sensor the one in the top of the air hose just before the throttle body ??

I'm pretty convinced I can avoid the problem by leaving the passenger window open a fraction to stop the heat inside the car building up too much. Perhaps I've just been lucky.

Dave.

 

Yup, that's the sensor, let us now how you get on

 

Have confirmed Pieter's Solution works.

Left the car in the sun today with the windows closed till it was really cooking inside. On turning the ignition on the injector warning light stays on and the engine won't start.

Popped open the bonnet and disconnected the air temp. sensor wire. Turning the ignition on again this time the injector light goes out as it should and the engine starts no problem !

Very useful to know the solution to this little glitch as it's a bit of a pain when it happens.

Be interesting to know if the local dealer knows about this (Sidlow at Gatwick)and whether they will do anything for free - doubt it somehow. I'll probably ring them in a day or two.

 

I am glad that my solution is working. After i found out, i informed my local dealer and they asked by the importer. They knew the problem, there is a range of eprom's with this problem.
I replaced it (must pay half of the price).
But i have since two weeks the eprom replaced for a Squadra chip (www.squadra-tuning.com). On the whole range of rpm more power and more torque, especialy by 2000 rpm. Better, more direct reaction on the gas pedal.

Pieter
member register 119
artc member 121
155 1.8 TS 16V S

 

Errr mine's doing the same thing (2.0 16V) and I've got a squadra chip in it.

Going back to the fuel vapourisation thing, the noise like a fan could be the fuel pump. If you're leaving the ignition on while you disconnect the air temp sensor it could give the pump enough time to build up fuel presure in the injection rail (perhaps). Or maybe the engine managemet doesn't like an ambient air temp of over 50 deg that you'll find after leaving the car in the sun. You probably let the car cool down inside (door or window open) while disconnecting the air temp sender.

Its just a thought. Its a little inconsistent that mine does the same thing with a SQUADRA chip in it.

 

Strange problem. I'm certain Pieter's suggestion is the solution. When I tried it on Sunday I kept the doors closed and the ignition off whilst unplugging the sensor wire which probably only took 10 seconds. The car started straight away afterwards with no injector warning light. Having suffered this problem on occasions for a couple of years it seems normally to take 5 or 10 mins for the inside of the car (the ECU I presume) to cool down enough for the car to start. I've not actually looked inside the ECU as I still have the standard chip in it but I suppose it's possible that it's another chip in the ECU that needs to be replaced to cure the fault. I think at the moment I'm going to be happy just disconnecting the sensor when it's too hot rather than have my nearest dealer start changing things as I suspect they won't have any knowledge of this problem. I think I will ring them just to see what they know or are able to find out though.

Dave.

 

I can confirm that disconnecting the sensor causes the injector light to go out immediately, and will allow the car to start normally. There's no other way of starting the car. I wonder what error code the ECU logs? Could it just be a faulty air temp sensor going short circuit when the air is hot?

I'll try and get some feedback from my alfa dealler in due course (just been on holiday). Anyone in Europe got any documentation to back up EEPROM replacements?

Thanks all for help, at least I know I can go places in hot weather now!

 

This is the 3rd summer I've had my car and this is the first that she's had the same starting probs as mentioned here after cooking all day in the sun.

Dave_i, have you contacted Sidlows yet? They're my local dealer too.

 

Another interesting feature of this quirk....

If you are quick enough re-connecting the air temp sender after starting then the electic fans definitely run for a short time.

Anyone got the nominal resistance values for this sender (probably in the full workshop manual) it would probably worth double checking, although if the fans run I guess that points to the EEPROM feature.....

 

Hi,
I spoke to Sidlows about this last week. The chap on the phone wasn't aware of the problem but went to check with the chief mechanic. He said there had been a problem with some of the ECU's but there was never a recall to sort out the problem as it was so infrequent. Only fix they were aware of was to replace the ECU with a bill heading towards £1000 after having to change the keys/ locks as well I suppose.

They gave me the phone no. for Alfa customer care 0800 717000 to persue it further but I haven't done so. Not sure I'd get the ECU replaced even if they offered to do it for free now I know what the solution is.

Happened again yesterday lunchtime even though I'd left the windows open a bit. No problem as soon as I pulled the wire off though.

Dave.

 

Mine does it also, but it only takes a couple of cranks to sort.

The cooling fan always cuts in, and I assumed it was the water temp sensor on the top of the thermostat getting hot, hence the ECU cuts the engine like it had overheated. The other reason I thought this was the cause is because the first time it ever happend was just after I had refitted the thermostat, which I'd also just had a heat lamp on to set some araldite (which was used to stick the plastic pipe in the end.).

So, now I'm confused, because I would never have thought that an air temp sensor would have caused the cooling fan to run. Oh well, good to see we all get the same problem, what ever the cause is.

 

Like Steve P I've had this problem only this year and it's the 4th summer for me. Mine usually starts after a few attempts and just manages to tick over for about 20 secs then normal service is resumed and at that point the injector light goes out.
I'll try the air temp sensor next time.
Is it a hotter summer then