I would nip down to your local friendly garage, get them to print off the AutoData "how-to" guide. They might want a few beers for this If you took your car to a non-Alfa garage thats all the info they'd have on how to do it..

 

That's a great piece of advice. The last time my car was in for it's MOT I got talking to the tech. He was only to happy to show me how good Autodata is. I was well impressed. Makes the mechanics job an awful lot easier.:thumbs:

 

That’s how I have done it on my 2.4 JTD 10V

Disconnect battery.

Lift the car and remove driver side front wheel.

Remove both upper timing belt covers.

Remove Top engine mount and steady bar. (TX55 required)

Remove V-belt and front V-belt idler pulley.

Remove lower timing belt cover.

Remove crank pulley.

To remove the crank pulley;

Use a T-bar with a 19mm nut to hold the crank in position.

Now undo the 6 bolts that hold the crank pulley.

With the T-Bar back on the 19mm crank bolt, turn the engine clock wise till the only timing mark on the camshaft pulley line up.

Loosen the nut (13mm spanner) from the automatic cam belt tensioner.

Remove the old belt.

Now remove the old tensioner and the old idler pulley (Idler is 24mm socket).

Fit new tensioner and new idler to the engine.

Tighten the idler pulley fully, but leave the 13mm nut of the automatic tensioner lose.

The new timing belt has 3 markings;

First the directional markers.

The 3 arrows must point to the “Right” ,clock wise direction.

You will find 2 yellow lines on the timing belt.

The Fist line is the position for the cam wheel timing mark, the second is the position for the crank shaft timing mark.

Start the fitting of the new belt at the crank shaft, and place the second yellow line at the grove on the crank shaft pulley.

The timing mark on the crank shaft is about the 8.30 a clock position.

Now fit the timing belt in anti clock wise order.

Crank shaft pulley, idler pulley, cam shaft pulley, Diesel pump pulley, Water pump pulley, automatic cam belt tensioner.

If all is timed correctly, the second yellow line will match the cam wheel timing mark.

Now push the automatic tensioner up as tight as you can (to remove all slack from the belt.)

Tighten the 13mm nut of the tensioner.

Re-check that the timing marks still align.

Crank pulley at 8.30 a clock, cam pulley at 12.30 a clock position.
Now turn the engine 2 full revolutions (clock wise).

The automatic tensioner has a pointer and a indent (triangle OR round 2mm diameter).

Now loosen the 13mm nut and lever the automatic tensioner until the pointer aligns with the indent.

Tighten the 13mm nut to 25 Newton meter.

Re-fit all parts.

Done :thumbs:

Hope that helps someone

Mike

 

156 10 valve jtd Cam belt service guide



I keep losing this invaluable guide; please could our illustrious, good looking and well endowed forum overlords possibly make this a sticky / permanent thread, maybe in the 156 how to guide?:thumbs:
And include the thumbnails/ pictures/ diagrams?

Thanks very much

The Captain

 

Cheers for that Mike, great information. Couple of questions:

Is the 156 JTD engine similar to the GT engine?
Any other (than the TX55) special tools required eg camlock ?

Thanks
Steve

 

Hi, Steve
I would say the 16/20 valve engines are more of an evolution rather than a revolution of the older JTD engines.

And yes, special tools are required but many garages do not use them.

I used to work in a Lancia dealership as mechanic and we often did not use the looking tools.

In many cases, it would take longer to fit the tools then doing the job.

In theory, you could change the belt in any position you like.

If you make your own markers before taking the old belt off.

By doing it at the OT position, you just employ the manufacturers timing marks instead of your own.

If you make your own markings, I would make 2 marks per pulley.

The diesel pump does not need to be timed as it is only a pressure pump.

The yellow lines on the timing belts are a nice touch by the Belt manufactories.

The 8/10 valve engines use a 190 teeth belt; your 16 valve uses 198 teeth.

If you would count the teeth from the Cam wheel timing mark as 1(first yellow line), then count until you reach the crank shaft timing mark (second yellow line) the relationship between the marks will always be correct.

I would not be surprised if these yellow lines are aimed at independent garages that do not have special looking tools for every make and model of engines.

I have taken the belt diagram from the box the belt came in.

My one was from “Gates”.

The Gates diagram for your 16 valve can be found here
https://www.gates-online.com/GatesEU/en/GB/ProductImages/5600XS.jpg

So in principle the job should be similar on both engines.

Check your water pump, many belts snapped because of the water pump on the later engines.

The backing of the belt was worn true by a sized water pump impeller.


Best regards

Mike

 

Thought the 16v was a DOHC engine, that picture showed just one cam pulley.. ?

 

Its timed by a chain off the other end of the camshaft.

At OP,

Waterpump is a must not a maybe as they break up at around 60k causing cambelt failure. tensioners and idleers should also be done

 

there is only one cam pulley on the 16v engine the other camshaft is driven off the same camshaft but internally if that makes any sense to you, there are special tools for the cam timing and it is always best to use them, one locks the crankshaft in position and the other holds the camshaft in position, makes the job alot easier and more accurate.

 

Yeah that makes sense now, at least that means you can't get one cam mis-timed. They'll either both be in time with the crank, or both out of time.

 

i helped with the cambelt change on my jtd. it was easer than expected but we had the use of a ramp. belt was changed at 68k instead of the recomended 72k. i used a genuine alfa belt, tensioner and idler it cost about £125 .it was noted that the belt seemed a little slack and might not have lasted to 72k. we also found 2 dead mice hiding in the timing belt covers . i dont know wether they were italian or english though:lol: also the wires going into the ecu had been chafing abit so we put some insulation tape around them . all nuts bolts and screws were treated to some copper grease before re assemble.:thumbs:

 

did you do the water pump at the same time, it is advisable to

 

no i did not do the water pump

 

Mike,
Thanks for another great reply. I think I might give it a try if I can find a free day.
Cheers

 

What’s odd with the water pump?

The original water pump uses a plastic impeller.

The plastic seams to get brittle and brake up.

Some cheap and cheerful aftermarket water pumps use “old fashioned” metal, and all seams fine.

I believe, the job of changing the cam belt is not difficult itself.

For me, the important bit seems to be the correct adjustment of the automatic tensioner.

The rotational spring tension avoids overstretching of the belt and makes the belt run quieter.

I must admit, I have never seen or heard of a cam belt jumping a few teeth on any Fiat engine using this type of tensioner.

Is it difficult to change the cam belt?

Apparently Leonardo Davinci was once asked;

Is it difficult to sculpture a Lion out of a block of marble?

No, he replied.

Just chisel away everything that does not look like a lion.

Mike

 

Cambelt replacement - Alfa GT 1.9 JTD

Hi there,

I have changed it very successfully at 80 000km. Now the car has 96 000km without any problems.

I have documented the procedure because I found bit and pieces but nothing with all the details.

Attached is the procedure. I hope you will come right. It is not difficult with the right tools!

All the best. Alberto

 

Cam belt change

Followed it to the letter and bingo it lives again
thanks

 

Hi bsogri

I'm very glad that the procedure was useful to you.
I've done now nearly 120 000km without any problems. Only thing I had to change sometime ago was the thermostat as the water temperature was running lower and lower. 100% now.

Best regards

Alberto

 

Seems all information about the cambelt change is here but can't see the torque setting for the cam pulley being mentioned or maybe I've just missed it?

Understand that pulley needs to come off when replacing the water pump. Also how hard is it generally to get the pulley off in the first place?

 

Changing the JTD timing belt

Have a look at my procedure under ahs1478.
You can write to me at ahs1478@yahoo.com
Regards
Alberto

 

Hello ardi,

According to my workshop manual, the cam pulley does indeed need to be removed. You will need a device to hold the pulley steady. Laser tools do a generic tool, or totallyalfa can supply genuine Alfa tools, but he is on holiday till end of the month! I believe the M12 bolt has thread locker on it, but it needs to be tightened to a value of 10.2 - 12.6 daNm (Newton metres) on your torque wrench. FYI, it might also be a good time to change your cam sensor as well as the water pump and take care removing the cam wheel, since the sensor reads the timing via a cutout in a thin metal plate on the rear of the wheel - you don't want to damage that!

Hope that helps you - and Bon chance!

Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:

 

Thanks for the info captain. I've got a generic device which i will try out. Do people usually use e puller to get the pulley out or would a gentle knock with a (sledge?) hammer be enough, would not like to damage the pulley though. Anyway I guess i will find that out when getting on with the job..

 

Does this procedure work for the JTDM engine too? I have a feeling her indoors' is going to need its' belt changing...

 

To change the cambelt there is not needed to check to belt tension? Does the auto-tensioner do that job? I was thinking to buy this tool http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271375008353?redirect=mobile , is it required?

 

Hi All,
I have a long running diesel cam belt issue you may be able to shed some light on.
My 2006 GT has the 1900 diesel which always ran very well until I replaced the timing belt.....
I remember the old belt seemed rather slack and did not appear to set to the correct timing marks. Anyhow I replaced it using a tool to lock the cams and one to line up the crank.
When done the engine ran very badly and was difficult to start from hot. Long story short, I checked everything, timing tools, belt etc and reset it but still no improvement. So by way of experiment, I reset the timing to where I thought it used to be and turned the motor over by hand a couple of times to make sure valves would not hit pistons. The car ran much better but still not as well as it used to, I have repeated this operation several times, the car runs better but smokes a bit and is still down on power. I can lock the cams in the correct position with the setting tool but how can check that the crank is in the correct position ? and what is that position ? TDC ?
I appreciate your help with this

 

The crank tool locks the crankshaft at TDC. The cam tool locks the cams at the correct position for TDC.

I assume you're loosing the cam pulley bolt before tightening the belt tensioner so the cam pulley naturally finds it's properly timed position relative to the camshaft ?

Could be the rear camshaft is not timed to the front one correctly due to slippage of the connecting gears. You can't check this using the cam tool on the rear cam unless you remove the cam carrier as I understand it, there isn't room to get the tool in with the carrier in situ.

 

Hi Alexie,
Thanks for your response, I have indeed been loosening the cam pulley bolt to set the belt tension. You are right, you cannot fit the locking tool to the rear cam with the carrier on the engine. It is an interesting point and it should be possible to at least check the position of the rear cam through the cam tool port. I will look into that. It seems kind of a long shot though that the engine runs fine,(with the timing out), and when a new belt is fitted the cam gears suddenly wear and slip don't you think ? So I need to find another way to set the crank at TDC, maybe I can drop the sump off and check number one piston from underneath ?
Thanks again.

 

Rather than dropping the sump you could pull an injector or glow plug and insert a long thin screwdriver to check piston position.
However if it was me I would time it with correct tools and do a compression check first. I cannot see how the timing could be incorrect if the correct tools have been used so something else must be causing the issue you have

 

This sounds a bit odd. You're right about the cams, no reason they should have slipped relative to each other if it ran fine before the belt change.

What tool are you using for the crank ? Should be like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfa-Rom...-146-147-GT-1-9-JTD-Diesel-Engine-Camshaft-Crankshaft-Timing-Tool-/253168527736

If the tool is manufactured correctly and fitted correctly then it should lock the crank at TDC. I've wondered how accurate some of these cheaper crank tools actually are. The holes in it only have to be a little bit misaligned to cause the crank to be out by several degrees from TDC.

If everything is timed correctly you should be able to run the engine, stop it, then turn the engine by hand with the cam tool fitted until it clicks in and locks the cam. You should then find it's possible to fit the crank tool without any real movement of the crank.

I assume the belt is the correct one (right number of teeth) and the tensioner is set correctly, i.e. belt not too loose.

Also you may be able to check the rear cam position by inserting a short metal rod into the tool hole to see if the cam is aligned when the front cam tools is fitted.

 

Are you using the correct belt, there are 2 types. A 198 tooth belt for a cf3 engine and a 199 tooth for a cf4.

 

If it was the wrong belt there would, shortly after starting the engine, be a coming together of pistons and valves.

Pub