usually its 2 red keys and one brown master.

sounds like the 2 red keys have not been coded. The guy that sold it to you should have got that sorted prior to purchase but it should not be a biggy.

 

somewhere in the manual there is the way to use the brown key to code the others.

 

nope just says take your master key to a steeler who will use it to setup.

maybe something in the tech manual??

can anyone help....

ps is there any live links to the manual download as i lost my copy when my pc went bang (sorry to OP about the side line hijack)

 

put the master key in turn on ign then off put each key (red) in and turn on and off within 6 seconds then the brown on again last that should code them......

 

Just go to Timpson's they will sort you out.

You know if your red have been coded they cannt be recorded

 

Just go to Timpson's they will sort you out.

You know if you red have been coded they cannt be recorded

Yep, you can't do this at home, go along to Timpsons or the key guy on your local market. Red keys can fail, one I got with the car did not work and could not be recoded.

I got some red blanks from eBay, about a tenner each, and the guy on the market cut and coded these for about ten pound the pair. He did say that he needed the Brown key but most people reckon that a red can be cloned from a red, as you have the brown key this doesn't matter to you either way.

I believe that Timpsons supply, cut and code a key for about £25. Don't leave it, get it sorted before anything happens. One of my red keys physically broke in the boot lock............. Get it done and then store the brown key away some where safe.

 

Unless I am missing something you should be able to re-code the existing codes with no need to visit a locksmith, providing the blade operated the switch/locks.

The method here is the same as for the GTV.

UBB Message - Fiat Coupe Forum

Where it says silver and blue keys it means red keys on the GTV, and where it says red key it means burgundy (master) key.

 

Hi All,

Many thanks for all the tips and suggestions.

I've tried the burgundy key-red key-burgundy key routine but when I put the burgundy key in for the last time the yellow Code light stays illuminated and doesn't disappear. It goes out for the first two stages of the process as planned but not the last. I've looked at the keys and they've all got the same key number on them so I think they belong together, but this is probably just the blank code.

Any further advice before I head to Timpson's?

Thanks,

Baserati

 

Hi All,

Latest update: Went to Timpson's and got a key cut from the Burgundy master - they had red ones in stock, not shiny ones (...sound like a magpie!) which he cut and coded. Took it home and bingo - works a treat!...and all for £24.95.

While I was there I asked him to check if he could code the other red keys. He checked and they were coded already, he can't re-code them. Most interestingly, he told me that they were coded with the same code as the Burgundy Master Key, yet they won't start the car???

FYI I also rang local main dealer, Donalds in P'boro, and they quoted £50+ for a key and £39.99 to code it! Best part of £75.00 seems a high premium to pay just to have a nice shiny Alfa key, unless you've just won the lottery, inherited a fortune,...

Many thanks once again for all your help. This Newbie is glad he signed up!

Baserati

 

:thumbs: Good result. The guy I used couldn't recode my broken key either. Although the code appeared to be same as the Master it just didn't work.

No need to worry though, now we seem to have cracked this problem at very little cost.

As I now have your attention can I invite you to attend our Linc Section Meets and join the rest of us in fun, chat and a few good days out ? The next two Meets are in the Links below. Do come along and say hello, be nice to see you.

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/linc...m/Forum/lincolnshire/189256-lincs-evening-meet-three-kings-and-us-wise-men.html

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/linc...ncolnshire/190985-lincs-afternoon-and-evening-meet-bls-and-star-and-garter.html

 

What are you supposed to do if your brown key doesnt start the car/ because mine doesnt!!

I have two red keys (only one works) one brown key(doesnt work) and a valet key. All keys unlock the car but only one will start it - quite annoying

 

If your brown key is fcuked then you could get one from Alfa expence + expence.

Or the cheapest way is just get a clone cut at Timpson's

Then if you must have a brown key you could always take the transponder out of the clone and fit it to the brown key!

I dont know what all the fuss is about all you want is a couple of Keys that will start the car.

I have recently gone through a ECU failure and needed to replace the coded box, key and ecu and am still on my orginial log set.

this may be of interest:

Alfa Romeo Key code system

 

It would need bringing in to see if they can be programmed and if they cant then the proper way would be new lock set, lock ecu and engine ecu. But many have sourced cheaper ways and used one or two parts from us.

But there is a chance it would work and all would be ok.

Just to note - The brown key should NEVER be used to start the car as a standard key because its only to use to program in spare keys. :thumbs:

 

The chips are moulded into the key

 

are the keys the same for the GTV - should there be two red and one brown? How costly could it be if buying a gtv without the brown master key were something to go wrong i.e. in which circumstances would the master be needed?

 

There is the Brown Master that does everything and is the one you use if you want to code up your own keys,

Then you have 2 red key that do everything for everyday use.

Last you have an engineering key that opens the door and starts the car for when the car is in the garage. WHY?

I cannt think of any reason for a brown key so long as you have a couple of key that open and close the doors and start the car.

My ecu got damaged so I was faced with a bill from Alfa of about £500 on a car that I paid £650 what do you do scrap the car?

I bought an ECU, code box and a key with barrel,

Then I had the code from replacement key put onto my orginial key (a new Key cut) so I didnt need to change the lock set, Total cost £130

 

Yes the red key is soleley for programming new keys to the car.

 

This is the internals of my brown key! - surely there should be a transponder inside?

 

It should have a transponder inside.

If not it won't start the car.


Maybe someone has bought a master key blank and got the blade cut to make it look like it has the correct master key.


To check for a genuine master key, put it in the ignition turn to MAR.
Wait for the code light to go out.
Turn ignition off without removing the key.
Turn back to MAR, the code light should stay on if the key is the master.

If the code light fails to go out in the first place the master is incorrect or has no transponder.

If the light goes out on the second attempt it has a regular transponder.

I 99% sure that is correct anyway.

 

All master keys have a removable transponder as do remote keys.
All genuine Alfa keys are programmed and locked from new, so are not reprogrammable.
Shiny red normal keys have the transponder moulded inside.
All aftermarket keys have a removable transponder which is not programmed and needs a key machine to program it, they cannot be programmed by the car.
If you take a master key to simpsons to make an aftermarket key work, you end up with 2 master keys.

 

If you take a master key to simpsons to make an aftermarket key work, you end up with 2 master keys.

That's interesting and actually sounds right. I think Symon described the Master Key effects in regards to the operation of the " Code " light. My two " new " red keys work very well but I have noticed that if I turn the ignition to " ON " the " CODE " light goes off as you would expect and the engine starts. However If you turn off the ignition without starting the engine and then turn the ignition " ON " again the " CODE " light remains " ON " but the engine does start.

I thought it was just a quirk of my particular keys but perhaps not, maybe my red keys are now actually " Master " keys ?

The only thing I do know for sure from my own experience is that red keys can easily be programmed from a Brown " Master " key.

The more you read on this subject the more confused you become, I'm sure that out there somewhere there must be a definitive answer to this thorny subject.

 

On out Fiat Bravo the we only got one original blue key and the blade was very worn.

I bought an aftermarket transponder key from ebay for £5, took it to the key cutters with the master and got the blade cut.

I then cut open the original key with a stanley knife to remove the transponder and then I fitted it to the aftermarket key.

The aftermarket key does have a removeable transponder inside a little plastic "Drawer", I put the original transponder in and put a small amount of superglue on there to stop it falling back out.

6 months on it is still perfect.

 

I would put money on it being why it doesn't work.

Somone may have tried to give the illusion of having a red key by getting a blank and then getting the blade cut, which is a bit naughty.

 

The plot thickens.... just looked right through my history file and there is a reciept for a "recode".

Not sure what has been done to the car but it is worrying me that I only have 1 set of working keys. + 1 alarm fob.

Also I have what seems to be a code card with sixteen digits on - the card is made of cardboard though, not red plastic ones like most I have seen

 

Also I have what seems to be a code card with sixteen digits on - the card is made of cardboard though, not red plastic ones like most I have seen

This sixteen digit code is used for re-coding new Meta alarm fobs, you are correct it should be on a red plastic card.

 

Nige... I do know all the definative answers to these keys, its just that so many varying questions arise.
Andy... Conflicting info here. The "recode" should have meant that the imobiliser has been removed, but its quite obvious its working because some keys dont work. I guess that the ecu was virginsed, then later someone reconnected the immo and re-activated it.
You can get a transponder made for the master, but its hardly worth it, better to get a transponder copy made and put it in the key. The red one thats not working, check if it a genuine one ie Alfa insignia on it, if yes, then you cant use it until you get a master key, if no then take it to local heel bar and get it cloned to the working one.

 

:thumbs: It's a question that comes up time and time again, perhaps it's time that someone put up a definitive Thread that could be made into a " sticky. "

The problem is I think that the " definitive " Thread will cause controversy in it's own right with people dis agreeing. Sigh.

 

ok i dont have a brown key?
is this a massive problem!

 

Watson... no just make sure you always have at least 2 keys around, copies if needed.

 

Alfa/Fiat key system.
The original concept.
Transponders are supplied by makers ie Megamos, Philips, etc. and all are pre-programmed and locked, and all have a different
code in them. Master key and regular transponders are identical except from the codes in them.
The term key programming is confusing, as said the keys are pre-programmed and cant be altered, but these key codes must be
loaded into the cars immobiliser which is often called "programming the keys".
I will refer to entering the keys into car as "loading" rather than programming.
When the new car is originally loaded with keys, the transponder of the first key in becomes the master and all the remaining keys
are regular keys.
At this time no blank transponder keys were available, so any replacement key had another unique code in it, and the new key
needed the well known "master, red1, red2, master" sequence to load it into the car. As any replacement key is unique another
master key cannot be obtained, so ecu, immo, lockset etc are required just to add a key if the master is lost.


Then came the after market ...
Transponders became available which could be tailored (programmed) to simulate the protocol of a manufacturers key, thus
a clone could be made which operates exactly like the original. This meant that the master key was not required, because the
key that made the clone is already loaded into the immo.
Loosing all the keys was still a problem, however this can can be overcome in several ways.
1. Making a clone from the immobiliser information.
The immobiliser is opened and the data is extracted from eeprom, this data is used to make the clone key, (master or
regular).
Similarly data can be taken from a known good key and entered into the immo, (but not master key by this method).
2. The complete system ecu, immo and at least 1 working key can be taken from a breakers yard.

The above transponders use the static key system, where the same data is sent every time the key is operated, and is the most
simple around, however its very effective and has practically stopped vehicle theft because the thief has to get a key to get
moving.
The cloned keys work exactly as the original, though I find that if the transponder used in the Alfa is a Philips it seems to respond
better than the universal types.
Modern keys use a complicated calculating system, which changes data on every usage. The keys cannot be read, only written to
in most cases, so codes are required from manufacturer, and diagnostics are required to load the keys in.
Sorry its so long.

 

clear as mud

 

Blast!, sorry I wore my fingers down now,

 

I understood it. :thumbs:


I had a rough idea anyway though.