[undermeadow]

Mathias:
I know that the mixture of Water/Meth 50/50 has freezing point at -40, but in manifold it is evaporated and the water can condense separately and form into ice (like distillation) if there is temperature bellow 0C. Thats my concern.

 

[sussexa]

here was fmic top and smic bottom to compare no w/m on either
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/atta...ing-and-upgrades/102144d1287422899-fmic-for-147-1-9-jtd-8v-fes-smic-vs-fmic.xls

 

[Mathias]

Mathias:
I know that the mixture of Water/Meth 50/50 has freezing point at -40, but in manifold it is evaporated and the water can condense separately and form into ice (like distillation) if there is temperature bellow 0C. Thats my concern.

I understand your concern. But at 0.2 bar boost at say -20C the air temp directly after the turbo will have a theoretical minimum temp of about +30C, and higher in practice since the turbo isn't 100% efficient at compressing. Given a typical intercooler efficiency of 60-70% means the air temp right after the intercooler will be slightly below zero. Again theoretical minimum assuming no heat leak from turbo or engine. So as long as the electronics work and don't inject at minimum boost there shouldn't be a risk of ice formation even during fairly cold winter days. That being said, I don't personally have very high trust in (aftermarket) electronics.

Sorry for hijacking a great build thread, keep the upgrades coming.

 

[Clogz]

I understand your concern. But at 0.2 bar boost at say -20C the air temp directly after the turbo will have a theoretical minimum temp of about +30C, and higher in practice since the turbo isn't 100% efficient at compressing. Given a typical intercooler efficiency of 60-70% means the air temp right after the intercooler will be slightly below zero. Again theoretical minimum assuming no heat leak from turbo or engine. So as long as the electronics work and don't inject at minimum boost there shouldn't be a risk of ice formation even during fairly cold winter days. That being said, I don't personally have very high trust in (aftermarket) electronics.

Sorry for hijacking a great build thread, keep the upgrades coming.

No problem - thanks for the contribution. :thumbs:

Got some more stuff planned of interest....but first I'll need wrap up the WM chapter with some comparison results... should be ready to post them later this weekend.

:thumbs:

 

[sussexa]

what type of runs will you ? do 4th gear full throttle? if i do the same we can compare more as im still original map i.e.21psi (tops 25psi in creep though) and im only 25%methanol.
which first w/m on or off?and what data r you going to log?

 

[sussexa]

struggling to get a decent run at it due to snow and ice but ambient averaging 3 deg celcius.
heres a w/m off but i think car was still cold as start of run only 16 deg c
View attachment 131479
heres w/m on temps more like 25 deg c at start
View attachment 131477
View attachment 131478

not sure if it would cool more on a longer pull but nowhere near freezing temps at manifold

tried to put all 3 on 1 graph first is coolish car no meth, 2nd and 3rd are both w/m on rapid cooling more obvious?
pink is map temp, blue is maf temp and light blue straight line is approx rate of temp drop

[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
rate of drop is much faster even though pre run temp was colder on 1st run with meth off

 

[Clogz]

what type of runs will you ? do 4th gear full throttle? if i do the same we can compare more as im still original map i.e.21psi (tops 25psi in creep though) and im only 25%methanol.
which first w/m on or off?and what data r you going to log?

Done some 4th gear pulls with and without meth. I'll try and post the results later today or so when I have a moment.

I mix 50/50 water/meth - seems to work well for me.

I'm afraid I still haven't got any EcuScan cables so I've not recorded any temps.
When I do I'll post some...:thumbs:

 

[Clogz]

Mathias:
I know that the mixture of Water/Meth 50/50 has freezing point at -40, but in manifold it is evaporated and the water can condense separately and form into ice (like distillation) if there is temperature bellow 0C. Thats my concern.

I think you'll be fine with that. As James pointed out to me last night he injects NOS into his air intake (at the air box) which is at -200C...Whilst running meth...so if any freezing was going to happen he'd have experienced it...:thumbs:

 

[Clogz]

Fixing wonky wheels - Part 1

Huddle round my diesel chums for yet another update on the Skunk Brera...

For a long time I've been wondering if it would be possible to improve my Skunk Brera's handling. As you can read earlier on in this ever-expanding thread I've had the standard suspension replaced (springs and dampers) by AlfaTune as it was totally inadequate for this heavy 2.4JTDM car on the roads I travel. This transformed the handling of the car completely and gave me a massive handling improvement over the standard setup. No longer excessive bodyroll and lack of grip due to better dampers, better & lower springs and lowered centre of mass. :thumbs:

I then added the new OZ Ultraleggera wheels which have a slightly different offset. When this happens it would be best to have the suspension geometry set up again to avoid excessive tyre wear. Assuming it was right in the first place - which it never is! Therefore, even without any of these changes I strongly recommend you have the suspension properly aligned as it will be all over the place from the Alfa factory after being 'set up' by a tired Italian factory working on a late Friday afternoon who's had a little bit of wine during lunch... :lol:

Why bother? Apart from the obvious handling issues in this thread I posted a picture of my previous set of front tyres that were completely worn at the inner contact area. To be fair these tyres had done more than 15k miles...Not bad but if there's an improvement possible I'll have it!

So, after reading some excellent feedback I decided it would be a great opportunity to meet up with the man himself - Peter Cambridge from PCADynamics. Who? You may ask...
Well, let me explain. Peter used to work for Prodrive before setting up his own company PCADynamics. He developed the new and uprated Brera 'S' suspension setup for the petrol versions of the Brera. Unfortunately Alfa Romeo decided not to bother revising the 2.4 as "it was selling well enough"... Last weekend was a fairly early-ish 5AM and 'nippy' start for me and I drove the 2.5hrs down to Warwich in Birmingham to meet Peter at 8.30AM-ish. Yes, 2.5hrs on the way down as HighWays decided it was a good idea to just close the M69 and redirect traffic with the usual badly placed signs on a little sightseeing trip in the countryside... For good measure the M6 was shut as well...

I met Peter at Protyre in Warwick at around 8.45AM. Peter uses this Protyre often as they have a high precision 'Hunter' laser computerised tracking system there and knows the guys who work there very well. The very accurate tracking system allows your suspension to be set up to within 1/60 of a degree! :thumbs: I found Peter to be a very likeable and enthousiastic character and you'll realise quickly he's also a very knowledgeable person. When it comes to suspension - he's your man! He can talk suspension all day long! So, after a chat the (now very dirty) Skunk Brera went onto the ramps with the help of Jock from Protyre. First things first, Peter measured the current alignment. Well, only the right-rear wheel was inside the factory settings window but right on the limit. The rest was simply all over the place! Some factory settings these are...I'm surprised the steering wheel was in the right place! :cheese: Unfortunately we didn't print out the before settings and I can't remember the readings...but they were pretty 'off' as even Peter was surprised.

After a few questions of how the car 'felt' and what I was looking for in terms of handling Peter took charge and started doing his 'thing'. First they (Jock & Peter) aligned the rear wheel 'toe' and 'camber' settings to within 1/60th of a degree. Once the rear was set up correctly it allowed them to set up the front wheels. All the time Peter was explaining what he was doing and how it would affect & improve the handling of the car. The whole process normally takes less than 45 minutes but in my case Peter wanted to take some weight measurements of my car for future projects. The Brera 2.4 is not a light car as we all know...my 'Skunk Brera' weighed in at a massive(!) 1656kg with an almost full tank of fuel...whatever figure you read in your manual...it's incorrect! I've since been awake at night wondering what this car could handle like if it only weighed something like 1250kg..... Oh well, one can dream...

 

[Clogz]

Fixing wonky wheels - Part2

A few more pics...

 

[Clogz]

Fixing wonky wheels - Part 3

Here's the final part...

Anyway, afterwards I took Peter from a testdrive as he couldn't believe a diesel powered Brera 2.4 could make such a nice sound. :cool We found a quiet road and I showed him what the AlfaTune F1-map and Meth injection can do on a cold frosty morning... Huge grins all round! :cool :thumbs:

Anyway, back to the handling. Here comes the bit you've been waiting for. I, rather unfortunately, had a very long drive back home but I suppose in my Brera it's not a bad way of traveling! Almost all of it was motorway apart from the odd roundabout. Anyway, as I set off I imediately noticed a difference. The car now tracks dead straight on the roads without any drifting. You can take your hands off the wheel and it doesnt 'wander' anymore. The other thing I noticed straight away was the precision and response at the 'neutral' steering point. The car now feels totally 'connected' to you without any wishy-washy feel.

A few days later the weather was a bit warmer and the ice had disappeared over the moors. An excellent opportunity to use the Brera to commute to the office and see what she how she handles on the familiar roads... Well, all I can say is WOW! She goes where I want here to go. Literally, with the meth singing, it's point and squirt! :lol: The car now oozes confidence and really goes round the corners exactly(!) where you want it to go without any over the dreaded front-end understeer. I've really 'given it some' and she just stuck to the road like glue despite the roads being far from optimal. At last I have a car that gives me the confidence of knowing the front-end is going to stick before I enter a corner. Before I felt always very cautious as I was never 100% what the front was going to
do. This feeling was not down to lack of grip as the G-logger showed I had plenty of that when myself and James were ripping up the tarmac around roundaboats.

Would I recommend it? Well, let me put it this way: I believe, it's the best value for money you can spend on improving the handling of your car and increase the lifetime of your tyres. It's so good it's left me wondering if I should have the Renault Megane wintercar done as well... :thumbs:

With special thanks to Peter and Jock! :thumbs:

Peter Cambridge - PCADynamics
Phone: 07827 778743
email: peter@pcadynamics.com
web: Home - Peter Cambridge & Associates Limited

ProTyre
Emscote Road,
CV344PH
Warwick
tel: 01926 622930

 

[jbsmith1]

Wow what a great write up and pics! Top work Clogz! Your working through your modding list at a pace! Whats next?

 

[Clogz]

Wow what a great write up and pics! Top work Clogz! Your working through your modding list at a pace! Whats next?

Cheers James :thumbs:

As you know lots of stuff in the pipeline....starting with this mystery box that has arrived...

 

[stefanocirillo]

Great write up clogz! When you having this beast dyno'd??

 

[jbsmith1]

Hey Clogz, have you got that box out from under the tree and opened it yet?

 

[MikeyRules]

Hey Clogz, have you got that box out from under the tree and opened it yet?

^^^^ what he says ^^^^ life's better with pictures!

 

[Clogz]

Great write up clogz! When you having this beast dyno'd??

Hi Stefano,

I had it dynod last week and, time allowing, am putting some stuff together to finish off the Meth writeup... :thumbs:

 

[Clogz]

Hey Clogz, have you got that box out from under the tree and opened it yet?

Father Xmas has arrived

Well, Xmas not only arrived once but twice this year!
I not only received the mystery box I posted but another, even larger, box was delivered...

Here's the contents of box number 1...:thumbs:

Some super-huge, ice-cool front brakediscs "a-la-F1JBS"!!!! to be fitted this winter

:thumbs:

 

[Clogz]

Father Xmas has arrived - part 2

And then there was box number 2....well, well, well....

This box was from my wife & baby daughter...how super-duper-ice-cool is that!!!???
I don't think many people will be able to say their wife&baby daughter bought them the huuhuuugest, mother of all intercoolers that can possibly be front-mounted (shoe-horned) into a Brera 2.4jtdm!

Except my mate James(F1JBS) perhaps... :lol:

Looks like daddy has his work cut out over the winter!

:thumbs:

 

[jbsmith1]

OMG! Thats some nice presents mate, those discs will clean up lovely, and that intercooler is a wopper!:lol:
I must say you did a sterling job on the water/meth install and it's great to see your prepaired to go through more blood sweat and late nights after seeing what these mods will do for performance.

My write ups arn't as detailed as yours, so if there's anything thats not clear from my Brake or Intercooler install then just ask.:thumbs: