First, check you're getting fuel. Use MultiECUScan + your OBDII interface to run the fuel pump relay tests. You can do this with the free version of MES. You should hear the relays in the engine compartment and you should hear the fuel pump under the back seat go on for a second or two and then turn off (easiest to hear sat in car with doors closed).
You could always just crack the bleed nipple on the fuel filter and then put the key in (to prime the in tank fuel pump) but you'll need a bit of pipe for that or it can get messy

 

Thanks!
tried that, couldn't hear anything the first couple of times I tried it (on a public road with traffic), but could hear on the third time (with no traffic), as it turned on and off. Tried the ignition and started interestingly no smoke out the back), however, it did seem a little sluggish.
The fuel pressure seemed ok after that, but at least managed to get it to the garage, who are going to take a look, they didn't think it was a blocked fuel filter, but will change it for me (they were shocked when i told them how long it was since it was last changed 25-30k).

Other ideas on the issue?

 

I had something similar on my 2.4 and after working my way through everything it came down to a dodgy connection at the multiplug on the face of the interior fusebox (pin 32 IIRC, which delivers power to the in tank fuel pump). I unclipped the multiplug sprayed it with contact cleaner and refitted it and it's worked ever since.
TBH though, I'd be extremely surprised if you had the same issue. I'd look at swapping around the relays in the exterior fusebox (engine bay), you can swap the fuel pump and the horn ones around to test. Also keep the laptop and OBDII cable handy and stick it on as soon as it won't start (catching intermittent faults is a pain). Use the fuel pump relay test to check what is and isn't working as soon as it won't start, as it sounds like it's a low pressure fuel problem (relay or pump or power to either).

 

Cheers,
is there a list of relays anywhere? Seems fuel pump is fuse 21, so will double check, does it come under any other headings? (there are a few ambiguous descriptions).

Edit: it's T10, the info is on the back of the box box cover

 

Underside of the exterior fusebox cover has descriptions IIRC.
Fuse 21 sounds right, there is only 1.

 

Currently Ina hotel in Roston, car failed on me totally, same issue, but this time activating the fuel pump did nothing ( suspect when I could not hear it before it was not traffic, but not working). On multiecuscan it was saying the relay was working ( and in different states, eg starting), but nothing from the pump. So checked the fuse, swapped the relays, still no joy, so it's now parked outside alfa workshop as RAC wanted an arm and leg to get it to auto lusso ( where it was actually booked in! ).
So guess the pump has failed, or wiring somewhere.
Odd as when it starts I never have any issues ( and drove 200 miles over the weekend without issue).


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Has the timing belt jumped??? Seen this before. Is the belt slack?

 

Not that I have looked, the car seems to drive normally as soon as it starts,


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EOBD light on??? Checked the EGR valve isn't stuck in the open position?

 

EGR is blanked, no engine lights, only error message is the glow plugs.
I took the fuel pipe off the fuel filter also, no diesel, even on cranking.


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Have removed and physical check on all glow plugs work. Glow red when connected to car battery

 

Glow plugs not working will not stop the car from starting. If there is no fuel on cranking that's the problem. The relay for the pump is by the battery. Can you here the pump in the back of the car??? Under the rear seats. Locate the fuel pump relay and remove it, get some wire and bridge across the relay board and see if any fuel comes out.

 

As above, nothing from the fuel pump, I swapped the relays around in the fuse box, didn't do anything, it's with Alfaworkshop at the moment, hopefully they can sort it easily ( I've seen the price of the tank pump too, £320, my old 306 was £75 for a new one, the price of a non mass market car!)


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Just a quick one to try.
In the interior fusebox, by drivers knee. Un clip and reclip the large multiplug on the left (you'll probably need a flat blade screwdriver to lever the cip/handle on top to unfasten it). A pin at the bottom of it supplies power to the tank fuel pump. (ask me how I know...)

 

We have a winner, at least close enough. The guys at Alfa workshop were kind enough to fit me in. Had a look at the pump, realised there was no power going to it, and worked out power was going into the fuse box (by the knee), but none coming out! There is no fuse or anything, just a gentle detour for the wire with a couple of connections that could go wrong! So they simply bypassed it!
Good thing too, much cheaper than a fuel pump ( imagine many places would have put one in, only yo find out it was not the cause).

One thing that puzzles me is why I only ever had starting issues, most of the other threads had lumpy idling and cutting out.

Where does your experience come from Munkee?


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So your all good one giblets? Sounds like a happy ending.

 

According the guys at Alfa workshop, they've seen it before too, so evidently not the most rare of issues, a good thing they'd seen it too, as they located it a lot quicker!

 

Could I ask a question regarding the intermittent starting?

Mine will start fine some mornings (warm or cold weather) but others will fire then cut out immediately. This could be once, twice and yesterday morning 6 or 7 times before it started!!

Some mornings it will fire ok but then for a few seconds run as though it's going to stall to then tickover and rev freely

This morning fired first time so am at a bit of a loss!!

Recent work includes full service at MVC, New MAF, cleaned MAP and EGR (found it had the partial blank and was clean) plus a 600 mile Italian tune up!!

EDIT - forgot a few weeks ago it came up with "water in fuel filter" warning but hasn't happened since!!

cheers
Steve

 

Yeh, could be the case, I would try blanking the EGR ( slip a bit of a drinks can metal between the EGR and inlet pipe), EGR is often a cause.

On the fuel pump side, when you put the key in the ignition you should be able to hear the whine/ buzz/ noise of the fuel filter pump from the back, for around 10-15 secs.
Also try hitting/ tapping the fuse box in the hole by the drivers knee, see if this changes anything.
I would thoroughly advise getting multiecuscan and a cable, can then see if the fuel rail is presurising.


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Yeh, could be the case, I would try blanking the EGR ( slip a bit of a drinks can metal between the EGR and inlet pipe), EGR is often a cause.

On the fuel pump side, when you put the key in the ignition you should be able to hear the whine/ buzz/ noise of the fuel filter pump from the back, for around 10-15 secs.
Also try hitting/ tapping the fuse box in the hole by the drivers knee, see if this changes anything.
I would thoroughly advise getting multiecuscan and a cable, can then see if the fuel rail is presurising.

Hi Giblets

The EGR has the factory blank and although clean when I took it out, I gave it a thorough one again and everything was moving freely

I do hear the fuel pump but definitely not for that long - 3 or 4 seconds at best

I'll give the relays and fuse box a look at which I was going to do - just wanted to check this was a similar thing to other peoples problems. - I'll have a look at the multiscan and lead!!

Hi 159-kid

I have only noticed smoke yesterday when it took ages to fire - clean as a whistle the rest of the time and it did used to idle lumpy until I cleaned the MAP but now once fired it runs smoothly.

Sometimes seems like I have excessive turbo lag when running but am also getting the fumes in the cabin every now and again so thought that was probably a loose intake pipe!!

cheers
Steve

 

Have you checked the Glow plugs. Whats it like once started? Rough idle / smokes a lot?

 

When you say the factory blanking plate, do you mean the ones with holes? In which case, still check the EGR. ( especially with 'turbo lag' the solenoid often fails in which case EGR needs replacing)
Also check the power loss guide in the stickies, a few other ideas such as the MAF.


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Had a weekend trying to get to the bottom of it and here are the results

Changed the fuel pump relay for the horn one
Cleaned out the filter and housing for the turbo control valve (bits of leaves and general cr4p in there)
Replaced the clip on the loose intake with a proper jubilee clip - now solid as a rock
Removed, cleaned and replaced EGR (it has the factory plate with 4 holes in but was quite dirty) made sure it was seating properly and solenoid was moving freely which it is
Unclipped and reclipped the injector connectors and the connector in the fuse box by the knee (just in case)
Removed cleaned and refitted the MAP sensor
Not messed with the MAF as MVS fitted a new one 6 months ago

Still struggled to start this morning - it fires immediately then immediately cuts out unless i give it a boot full of throttle then if it does stay running it struggles to tickover (even with me pumping the accelerator) for a few seconds and then jumps into life!!

On the plus side it ran really smoothly on the way to work and the lag seems to be better. Still a few fumes in the car and I did check the EGR had seated properly so thinking maybe a different pipe maybe split.

I'm going to order an OBD2 cable but the Alfa advertised one is a lot more than the VAG advertised one - are they both the same?

Thanks in advance
Steve

 

Did you clean the throttle thing and also channels in the manifold that are behind it (throttle comes off and then you have access to manifold) - any kind of gunk there will cause the problems you have.

With regards to OBD2 cables - you want ELM327 - cheapest one that you can get (USB or bluetooth - USB is slightly more plug and play), VAG KKL cable is also going to work but has limited functionality on newer cars as it does not support CAN.

 

I cleaned the channels into the manifold (where the EGR bolts on) but didn't venture further than that - maybe i need to!!

Cheers for the OBD2 info - i'll have a look for one of those!!

 

Very possible its another pipe (piece of stick within a tissue on waved around can help to find them).
I'd also check the battery charge, but mostly fuel.

 

Have you solved the starting - immediate shut off issue that you were experiencing?
Does it have something to do with battery not charging completely, so the glow plugs would not have enough juice to kick in?
Or maybe the glow plugs are fading?

Thanks mate.