yep - basically the holden v6. Why stop at a big bore? get an LS1/2/3 V8

 

The 'new' Alfa 3.2 is nothing like a Holden 3.8 V6. Only the bottom end is out of the Holden factory AFAIK, and heads/valves, intake plenum, ECU/mapping are not Holden/GM. So the engine is far more Alfa than Holden.

Alfa 3.2 bore x stroke: 85.6 x 90mm
Holden 3.0 bore x stroke: 89 x 83mm
Holden 3.6 bore x stroke: 94 x 85.6mm

Crankshafts may very well be totally different too.

LS engines are dinosaurs out of the US, and not produced by Holden in Australia.

Holden's 3.0 V6 direct injection engine is good for 190kW/290Nm, so that's not bad. 3.6 V6 direct injection produces 210kW/350Nm, which would be handy in the Alfa. But the engines are so different in shape that it probably won't drop into an Alfa chassis.

As with any engine mod like proposed, it would be expensive but do-able. Bore it out, new cylinder sleeves, new pistons, then at least an ECU upgrade to suit. For best results, you might need uprated injectors, fuel pump/pressure, head work, bigger throttle body, etc. No idea exactly what upgrades would help cos I've not researched it.

But maybe a 'stroker' crankshaft could be the goer. That way you don't touch the heads, just increase the stroke and leave the bore the same. (You might still need mods to prevent the pistons hitting the valves/heads)

I suppose you want to find a reputable local engine tuner who can perform the mods. Maybe even speak with Autodelta because they may have done the research compared with their supercharger option.

 

I think you are more likely to see alfa producing more efficient turbo engines than big V6 lumps from now on.

its been hinted at before that certainly the MiTo GTA would be a 4 cylinder turbo lump rather than the more recent tradition of the V6.

with the current economic climate, fuel prices only set to rise and massive taxation across the european community on vehicle emmissions, its more about efficiency. sure if your engine is burning fuel efficiently then you have a good powerful engine but the method of choice for doing so right now seems to be via forced air induction, i.e turbo.

you may get lucky and find something like the 2.5 V6 gets a turbo to go up against something like the insignia VXR's 2.8 V6 Bi Turbo (320bhp) for something like a 159 GTA if they even make one but i'd expect it more likely something like the 2.2JTS turbo for future models, given that there is already a 3.2 V6 version of that.

they did experiment with a masser V8 in a 159 for a GTA spec but that was quickly knocked on the head when they realised they way things were going but I would expect to find large displacement vehicles getting more and more rare with smaller turbocharged more efficient / powerful engines taking its place.

dont underestimate the derv motors either, of course the 2.4jtdm engines are getting very close to the power of the 3.2V6 motor anyway but are far more efficient and popular choice as result.

 

But they're diesel?!

 

I do agree totally I love the sound of a V6 or even petrol motor over a derv but people are more and more willing to sacrific sound for economy!

 

Variable compression engines with big turbos is the future.... Long live the classic car

 

I'd like to imagine it would be quite easy to do, but really - I don't know..!

The 3.6 in the new Camaro is putting out 312bhp & 278lb/ft as standard on weak petrol, so looks like there's a lot of potential..

 

Yeah but how much weak petrol does it need?
People just don`t buy these in europe. there is no more market for these engines.
It is the very sad but obvious truth.

The last car makers selling large V6 and V8 in any sort of volume (BMW, Benz, Audi) are selling mostly 6 and 8 cylinder diesels nowadays.

I am a huge fan of the Alfa V6 but i doubt we will see one again. Maybe a turbocharged small V6 but no NA engine.

 

There is still some life left in big capacity engines. Now turbocharged Mercedes are getting over 30mpg (combined) from a 2 tonne car with a 5 litre V8. And the new CLS63 AMG has 28.5 mpg from a 5.5 V8 with 518 bhp.

 

So, back to the question in hand, as larger capacities of the same engine already exist, how hard would this be & what could be expected in terms of gains?

 

Not to revive a dead topic or anything but to awnser squadrone rossos question, yes it is possible, im almost finished with my 3.6 conversion coupled with some other mods, should be pushing the same amount of power as the SC kit when done but what Jano says is true, dong the big bore route is a hell of a lot of work haha

 

Oooooh.
Benzina will you be providing video? I'd love to see and hear the new lump in action.

I'm waiting for mine to come back from fuel pump swap and then I'm looking at NOS as a viable bhp addition so can have it as and when needed. Some issues apparently with the crank sensor out puts being in the correct increments for variable nos but apparently doable.

Mj

 

Hi yes im going to put up nice vids for it when its done you can view some of the work ive done on the heads in the south africa lounge just search head work going well.

I was always interested in NOS but im always scared of breaking things! You must let me know how your NOS project comes along and also share your thoughts on NOS reliability. Having had this motor open i.can tell you it has damn strong internals and the engine block also. Apparently these motor internals are rated for 500hp because GM had 4.0L planned for this block but before they launched it emmision laws pulled a fast one on them and thus the turbo age began

 

Benzina's related threads:

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/south-africa/365037-head-flowing-going-well.html
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/south-africa/365110-extrude-honing.html

:thumbs:

 

Check the above link..
First Big-Bore Brera Conversion Underway! - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

 

Yes im familiar with this conversion, local alfa legend dawie de villiers also does this conversion to 3.6

 

Benz

That looks great. Your right those exhaust valves look tiny. I used to polish and blueprint all ,my engines when it was all much simpler and I could do it myself.

I'd have to give it to someone else nowadays. I'll let you know what happens with the NOS as I have also heard form a chap who works for Holden I had a long discsussion with that the engine can take it as long as you use a good variable set up.

We will see

Mj

 

Actually the exhaust valves arent half bad, the problem is the exhaust ports that are below spec, the volume able to pass through in comparison to the what the valves alow is below a good flow spec, standard its about 50% volume, an optimum volume percentage is 75% any more above that you lose velocity and start to make turbulence in the exhaust port. Anywho so i just opened up the port to 75% about, maybe a bit less, so in theory it should rev more free now.

 

Sort of on topic but would the vauxhall/gm vectra 2.8 turbo engine not fit the brera/159? Can get like 300bhp plus out of those easy?
I think it's called the lP9 turbo.

 

Now that's an interesting idea. Would be hard for me with the q4 drive train but a fwd 159 might work.

I also looked at the original mazer/Ferrari lump that the concept car had but again too much was eventually changed to allow it to even fit the bay space, would require lots of cuttin NAND shutting and still would only be rwd so I decided against that option on cost alone

 

Could you not fit it to the q4 gearbox? Should be similar as they are pretty much the same engine. Plus the insignia vxr/OPC has 4wd?

 

will investigate and see what people say about matching up, i know it can be done with removal of rear drive shafts but that would seem to defeat the object somewhat.

Mj

 

I also looked into this but as always space was a issue, im sure its possible to do it it just requires enough resources, time, money and patience. For me it would have been paticularly difficult because we barely have saabs here from which i can do research or salvage parts. Also you might need a bigger turbo for the 3.2. Working out new piping and intercoolers and management and the obvious trial and errors involved in fitting and tuning a turbo coupled with my saab problem proved too stressful and costly in comparison to the 3.6 conversion for approxately the same power output.

Also ive been longing all my life for a pure performance NA car without the help of a hairdryer haha

 

And i think the alfa gearbox should fit as the bottom end is the same except for the sump shape and the bore size as far as i understand

 

Well sounds good would be worth looking into it more. what can the q4 running gear take in terms of bhp without destroying it?

 

Quite a lot, its the same 4 wheel drive system torsen thats on the Audi RS4. There is a brera somewhere in SA with a 3.6 conversion and a turbo and i think it kicks about 500hp on the Q4 it only needed a stronger clutch

 

Any idea where they for the stronger clutch from

I'm going to need one soon and had real trouble finding anything.
Mj

 

Oh ok that's good then will deff look more into this then

 

I thought the clutch would be the same as for the 2.4 diesel, which has no problems with 450Lbs of torque?