I've not owned the jts but I think it's fair to say it doesn't have a reputation for reliability. It never seemed like an improvement over the twin spark to me.
However, good condition low mileage petrol cars are currently more abundant than diesels so it could be the sensible choice if you're looking for love!

 

"Cue Joe"

He has run a GT jts and then a 1.9jtd...

The 1.9jtd is the stronger engine all round. Power etc. The GT jts sold well in Japan. Not so much here in the uk.

Damien.

 

ha ha...

yup I have, and I would not touch another JTS engine with several barge poles tied together....to say it's not Alfa's finest moment is an understatement.

they destroy their own camshafts at the drop of a hat, are incredibly sensitive to oil starvation, due in part to the direct injection which contaminates the engine oil thinning it and causing top end lubrication issues.

MCSF is a question of not if but when on those , they also have 3 cats from what I remember so multiple emissions controls causing even more problems.


they don't sound nearly as nice as a twinnie (although nicer than the diesel) in addition 36k cam belt interval means every three years on most peoples mileage and they have a variator that gets noisy very quickly making it sound like a diesel!

weak exhaust flexi pipe and all of the other normal GT issues like wishbones etc, and an oil habit of 1l every 1000 miles, it is designed to do this so not a fault, but with 10w60 this is an expensive habit. added to which economy is shocking as you have to boot the pants of it to get any real power. expect 28 MPG as an average.

meant to be 165 BHP ,most do not make that and it lacks torque anyway even if it is pushing out the claimed ponies.

so IMHO stay away.

that said it WAS fun...but not enough fun to cancel out the bad stuff and the derv out performs it hands down despite the figures suggesting otherwise.


I would have another only if it was .....

1) sub 1k

2) in a perfect GT

3) I had to do less than 5k a year no more than 10..

4) I had the time and inclination to tune it to the 200 HP i think it would be capable of with race cams, lightened flywheel, re-map etc.

this is more to do with my love of the GT than the JTS and my natural inclination to tinker.

with all of that done it could be a fun but ultimately fragile machine.


in short buy a derv, i'm not saying they are trouble free, but they are more solid in general and with a £200 re-map would destroy a JTS entirely.


its a shame, I have said it before, the GT was born in a period when Alfa were not producing any really fantastic engines (bar the busso) so it got the 1.8 twinnie (underpowered for the GT) the 3.2 busso which is gorgeous but expensive to run.

leaving the 1.9 JTD and JTDm as the hands down best choice, at odds for a marque that is historically all about the petrol engine.

would love to have seen one with a 2.0 TS, that would have been a much better choice than the 1.8.

I'm sure there will be a JTS owner along to say they have had no issues and its a perfectly nice car to drive, but I push my cars hard and do high mileage. the JTS was just not up to the job.

 

Seems like they would be a fairly different experience, the diesel being a midrange torquey cruiser and the petrol being a nippy revvy experience.

What sort of driving do you normally do?

I went for the diesel version as I'm currently doing about 160 miles a day!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgE6SiOI_GE

sounds a bit lame too..aranoid:

My jtd with full wizard actually sounds more characterful..

Damien.

 

Any videos of your system? I miss having a nice exhaust tone after chopping in my last car!

 

I had one once, a beautiful looking car in red with tan leather and it sounded nice as I had an Autodelta induction but I reckon it was no more than 140bhp. I never had a reliability issues bar a coil pack replaced under warranty. I wasn't fully put off the engine as such as was going to buy a phase 3 GTV with the JTS engine a year or so back but once again only because it looked so nice and had a custom exhaust on etc. I am not sure I would buy a standard unless really, really cheap as Joe mentioned.

 

I don't agree with Joey at all. I've owned all the engines being discussed - JTS, Twinnie and Derv.

I've ran a JTS for about 6 months now and had none of the problems described. Could just be i'm lucky I suppose.

Just a few things to correct on

"MCSF is a question of not if but when on those" - This is a generic warning signal on the alfas (as we all know). The JTS engine is just as likely to have a problem as any other engine. The statement doesn't mean anything as MCSF could be anything!

"meant to be 165 BHP" - it was out of the factory, unlikely to find any high miler with the stated BHP. It also must be stated that the JTS is more powerful and more economical than a twinnie. That's a fact.

The oil issue. 1l/1000 miles isn't what ive been putting in mine. I've been watching the consumption very closely. It takes about 2/l per 6k so far. If you check other posts on this forum, you'll see usage seems to vary. Probably based an a variety of things, which i won't get into. The fact of the matter is the oil startvation issue is one that affects both twinnies and JTS engines, if you do lots of short journeys the variator gets starved of oil. This is not a JTS exclusive problem! That said, we've only just done the variator on my father in laws twinnie that we've had in the family from new at 140k, so hardly a time bomb. Oil startvation is a know issue and will depend on you type of driving. Buying a low mileage, newer, example will help as variator don't normally give up after 50K!

Regarding the sound, fair comment. I've had a twinnie and a busso and it is rubbish compared.

I've had a GT JTD and hated it. Not my thing. Sounded like, well, a derv! Cannot get on with that tractor sound, so for me even the JTS had a nicer tune to it. I think this is a matter of personal taste.

I think the choice of the OP will depend on the mileage. I would never buy a derv doing less than about 8k annually. The just get get clogged up.

I by no means love my JTS, its had its problems, but the point i'm making is that the extra power and mpg means its a better proposition than my old twinnie.

 

you have had one for 6 months,so enought time to get a feel for it. i also have had a twinnie (in a GTV) and currently run a derv.

I ran mine for about 6 months and did circa 14k in it, new variator and exhaust camshaft was required, it had 31k yes 31k on the clock when I purchased it and needed the exhaust cam replacing at 37k and the variator. one female owner and then an alfa mechanic, so well looked after and the history was full and honest.

That is unacceptable for any manufacturer or engine and it IS common on those.

MCSF is a generic warning but there are many more reasons why a JTS will trigger it...and those reasons tend to be bad news wallet wise.

They have ignition coil and injection issues FACT, most of them will go through ignition coils by around 60k, they are not cheap to replace as doing all four makes sense.

most will wear an exhaust camshaft, I have spoken to Jamie porter about this as he looked after mine when I had it. The answer was ''hardening issues' with the steel from which they are made, exclusive to JTS engines as they have a different profile on the exhaust camshaft to the TS, I believe the inlet cam is the same as a TS so Alfa used what was left over,hence most failures are exhaust cam.

the issues with the cams are exclusively an issue with the JTS as the direct injection contaminates oil causing it to thin fairly quickly in its life and lose some of its lubricating properties this with the above cam problems are a perfect storm.

and TBH the statement they were 165 BHP out of the factory, well with the utmost respect do a little research on this, many were nowhere near after dyno runs by JTS owners, and its common knowledge. yes age will affect it but mine had as stated 31k on the clock and was definitely not 165 BHP.

my derv was much more powerful even in stock form and I know the difference between BHP and torque. so I would say my JTS was pushing somewhere around 150 BHP, even after a new exhaust cam.

also I have just covered 27k in my 1.9 derv, not a single warning light ever for anything, the JTS had MCSF lights come up at least 3 times. once was coils, second time was injector, and third time was generic misfire, turned out to be camshaft.

it cost me nearly £1500 in 6 months of ownership...admittedly it needed a cambelt but no car on 31k should ever need a camshaft and variator.


Valinco I think you have been very lucky!

at least we agree on the sound, hate my derv at idle, think the twinnie sounds lovely and the JTS is not awful ,just a bit ''meh'' for an Alfa. but the power from a re-mapped derv is something else, it all depends on what you want.


tJTS are more grunty than the twinne though, although I think the TS is a more characterful engine and more reliable if well serviced, there are plenty of TS engines running 200k + miles I just don't think that a first generation JTS is capable of that.

the new ones developed in conjunction with GM and Holden are much better, but the ones in the GT, well its like buying the first batch of the new Iphone.

they have problems.

oh and they love a drink of oil AND petrol. all things considered the 3.2 wouldn't cost a lot less in fuel in real world terms.

we will agree to disagree as we are both taking as we find, two VERY different experiences of the JTS engine and both valid as you could have one or other depending on the luck of the draw.

I will say if your mileage is in excess of 10k a year look elsewhere.

 

I have a 2.0JTS with 107k on it. A friend of mine has the 1.9jtdm and I have to admit it has more grunt than mine and much better MPG but that doesn't bother me. I do about 5-8k per year so economy isn't an issue for me. A couple of minor things have gone wrong over the last year but nothing that wouldn't go wrong with any car of this vintage and mileage (2 x coil packs and a noisy alternator bearing). It uses oil but lots of engines do these days. My local specialist (Bianco) has actually stuck Selenia semi-synth in it this time around because they reckon that keeps consumption down a bit. We'll see but so far no top ups required since the service a month ago. I prefer the sound of a petrol engine to a diesel and I prefer the power delivery of the JTS over the DERV. Actually I think the JTS sounds quite nice. It's got a slightly off beat noise to it and that whistle as well.

It just depends what you want it for I guess. You'll probably get a higher spec/ lower mileage/better nick JTS than JTDm for the same money.

 

Second this "they destroy their own camshafts at the drop of a hat, are incredibly sensitive to oil starvation, due in part to the direct injection which contaminates the engine oil thinning it and causing top end lubrication issues."

they also burn coils pretty fast, and have injector issues which in the worst case will make it misfire and taking the head gasket with it..

Mine has had new coils, new camshafts and is now not running on all cylinders and drinking coolant like.. yeah Guess the gasket is done for..

Needless to say, it's getting the axe, i'm over the jts.

 

I'd rather have a 1.8 twinnie in a GT. Least you know it'll make the 140hp. And although not fast should be enough to have a bit of fun with.

If you get bored drop a 2.0 in. Straight swap and its easy enough.


The V6 is the one to have in a GT though.
If petrol and mpg is a concern pick the 1.8

 

Yeah it's a shame they didn't put the 2.0TS into a Gt, I had one in my 156 and it made a fantastic noise when extended to the upper reaches of the rev range, I absolutely loved it.

 

Comparing a petrol with a diesel is like chalk and cheese.

Some people have good experiences with the JTS others have less so. Or issues.

I've had twinnies and diesels and V6. All have their pro's and con's. Like any engine. It needs to be fit for purpose for you personally.

If it had to be a GT and 4 pot petrol i'd pick the more proven 1.8 TS. The JTS although I'm sure is okay (Its basically a TS with direct fuel injection) that it would be okay. Heck I blew two 1.6 TS engines. Now someone would say they are awful. But the latest 1.8 i put in is a peach. Based on opinion everyone has one. The JTD is virtually a TS block with different internals.

Some simple preventative maintenance will keep all engines running nicely.
I think The JTS in the GT was less prone to optimistic bhp figures. But generally they are under.

 

from what I read, with JTS engines you have to be lucky or maybe use the best petrol around... direct injection is the main issue with the engine. builds a lot of carbon inside the engine (common issue on most GDI engines), uses too much oil, lambda issues, injection issues, and on, and on... never had issues with my both 1.6 and 1.8 TSs. bottom line, the best GT for me would be a 1.8 TS converted to 2.0 TS...

 

I just traded in my jts gt for a v6 and here's my 2 cents worth....

My jts had 49K on the clock when I got it. Since 2004 it has had 2 cambelts, 1 variator, 4 (2 each side) upper wishbones, 1 lower wishbone, 1 strut mount,2 exhaust flexi pipes,1 centre silencer, 1 backbox (fitted by me as it was blowing badly when I bought the car),1 thermostat, 1 door handle, 2 coil packs, at least 8 spark plugs and at least 1 mass air flow sensor.
The car was great to drive and after the uprated back box made a great sound, especially when gunning it but I was forever getting false misfire mcsfs from coil 3 with cold weather. Variator was ticking away at startup even though it was replaced 15K ago and I was always apprehensive of what I'd have to do to it next even though it never actually let me down. It was a great car don't get me wrong but always felt like a ticking time bomb and for a car with under 50K on the clock it wasn't really good enough.

The V6 I've owned for a week now and suspect it has a failing Cv joint and worn brake pads but it feels solid and pulls like a Japanese train so I think I've made the right move.

One thing in the jts favour though it's a much lighter engine so the car handled like a go kart where the V6 feels heavy handed and a bit clumsily around corners but that's the only downside...fuel consumption is honestly almost on par with the jts returning 18.9 around London traffic and the 3.2 making 17.9.
I can live with that

 

Oh and as alfizta says, if you do bite the bullet and go for a jts, only feed it super unleaded, drop in some injector cleaner every few k's and make sure you stick to 10w60 oil as it's thicker and less likely to cause wear to camshafts. Also make sure you change the oil every 6 months if you can and stick to the 3 yr cambelt changes religiously as if it fails it's new engine time my friend. Good luck :thumbup:

 

did all of the above and it still ate its own exhaust camshaft aranoid:


read between the lines


not worth the trouble unless its in great nick, ie cambelt ,variator and water pump done...and really cheap.

under £2000 like £1800

spoke to loz at autolusso recently about the JTS as I was considering a Brera at one point, just to confirm my experience with it and to get a second expert opinion

I quote.

''stay away from those mate''

there was GT JTS in the workshop on the day I was in that had just blown its second engine. it had 90k on the clock...


90k aranoid:


two engines.






nuff said

 

Joey, as you said, we will agree to disagree. I just don't think you should pass off your bad experience as generalisations.

Everything has its pluses and minuses.

One more thing I would say is to concur with other posters regarding 10/60 oil (not 10/40) and posh fuel (it runs better on it - although this is hardly a scientific suggestion).

 

I think the overwhelming weight of evidence against the JTS passes my opinions off as generalizations.

I never intended to do anything but give my opinion and am conveying my experience and that of several other owners and two very well respected specialists ..I count 4 of us on the thread who have owned a JTS GT, three have had a bad time with it,both of my specialists don't rate them, Autolusso and the Alfa workshop.


I am honestly really happy that you are having a good experience with yours and you will naturally defend your choice of car, I felt the same when I owned one, but I now consider the lady that wrote it off in my work car park to be an angel sent from the heavens such has been the difference in power, speed,reliability and day to day running costs of my 1.9 derv.

she is on my xmas card list for sure...

its been no picnic with the derv either but none of the problems have been diesel specific, just GT idiosyncratic. where as the JTS problems where JTS specific and I had to deal with these as well as the normal GT stuff, bear in mind my JTS was bought at 31k and my derv at 74k...the lower mileage car should have been less trouble. not so.



most GT owners on here would concur with my conclusions so I am not passing off my opinions as generalization, I am in fact by the weight of general consensus and evidence, on balance more right than not...this is also represented in the difference in price between petrol and diesel GT's ,they are on average 30% cheaper in petrol for the same year, spec and mileage...on a marque that is historically all about petrol, that in itself speaks volumes.

07 blackline JTS £2500 which means £2250 that is huge depreciation for a car that is only 8 years old...worth 10% of the original price. that does make it a good buy IF reliable.

Alfa Romeo GT 2.0 JTS BlackLine 2dr

you try finding a diesel Blackline of that year for that money...


Alfa Romeo GT 1.9 JTDM 16v BlackLine 2dr


just under 4k for one with 98k on the clock so £1250 more, the difference is only the engine worth closer to 20% of the original price...both are the cheapest Blacklines I could find with respective engine.

I don't mean to slate your choice of engine, its not personal, I just don't rate that engine and I am in very good company with that opinion.

a good mate of mine asked me the other day if i could recommend buying a diesel GT, with all honesty I had to say no, because I know for 4k he could have any number of things that would be less trouble! and he is not handy with the spanners. for what he needs I told him to buy a Honda..

just trying to be honest with the OP as I am with anyone who asks.

 

I wouldn't say stay away from them but you have to be on top of maintenance, servicing and know how to avoid those injector woes before they cost you a limb or two.
Mine was a great drive and I can't stress how much I loved it. The exhaust I had fitted had a great sporty note which the jts should have had from the factory and it had a high pitch whistle that sounded like a supercharger at higher revs. The engine was great with plenty power especially after 3000rpm and the only issues I had were sensor problems or air leaks in exhaust flexi & air intake hose.
To be honest the only reason I was in doubt about reliability was because I was told 'stay away' by 3 different specialists.

 

why won't someone start «high mileage 2.0 JTS» thread?

 

there are no hardening issues to the camshafts, i had mine, the worn down one, inspected by a lab that can test the hardening of the steel. They were as hard as they would be expected to be, and all lobes was the same hardness, though only two of the lobes was worn. The only solution is oil starvation in the top end and the contaminating of oil (fuel coming into the oil through leaking injectorseals)

piece of crap engine that needs a big wallet (thats what you pay for the first direct injection engine on the mass market)....

and mines even selespeed, shoot me now!:smoker:

 

...thats what you pay for the first direct injection engine on the mass market....

Mitsubishi GDI came out in 1996.
6-years before Alfa's effort in 2002.

 

Yup and the little DI engine in the Honda Jazz of the wife's works perfectly with no injector issues or camshaft issues. Not all seem to have the camshaft issue mind.

Pot luck really. But I am sure picking other engines available would give you a better chance of success.

 

I had a 156 JTS and that had the injector problem resulting in oil thinning and worn engine. It was it a patch on the 156 TS I had previously. Now got a GT V6 which is I a different league. Would be wary about a JTS again and gather that the 2.2 in the 159/Brera suffer from worn cam chains as well.....

 

The gm jts is a totally different engine.
Cam chains become worn when the owners don't do frequent oil changes. As the service was lengthened to 18k loads of owners ended up with premature cam chain wear.

Easily solved by changing the engine oil every 8k.

 

High mileage JTS? Friend of mine took his 2002 from near new to 250,000 km, sold it and still going strong. A guy on here a while back had run his to 185k miles. Mines just a baby at 145,000 km, still no probs with engine.

I think you can have issues with any engine. Best bet if that sort of thing worries you is a near new Toyota. I've not owned a JTD but you read on here about guys who've had endless problems with EGR valves, swirl flaps, water pumps, needing remaps, on and on, spending literally thousands. If you spent that on a JTS you'd probably be able to fit a turbo and it'd be a complete weapon!

 

Indeed it does seem shocking that the amount that people spend on them.
I agree all engines have issues if neglected. Nature of the beast I'm afraid.

I am not sure who said it but the V6 is another league of engine though. And you do feel that through the pedal. Shame its so heavy but you can't have it all right?
I always felt like that with my 156 V6. Great in a straight line but a bit boat like in the corners. Needed more care.

 

Some very different experiences here

It seems that the JTS needs decent fuel, occasional doses of injector cleaner and regular oil level checks ; all exactly what my example has had and in 20000 miles of driving i can only report absolute reliability, although some say that later JTS models were better sorted.

Only problems have been a broken door handle (surprise surprise..) and needing a new reverse light switch at £8 !

Only ever two engine choices in the GT for me, JTS and that wonderful sonorous 3.2 V6..

 

I reckon JTS cams would last longer if the engine was fed a thinner but better quality oil.

Like a 5w-40 ester synthetic with high HTHS

The thicker oil was mainly specified to cut oil consumption (The claims they were designed to burn oil is utter borrocks, it is down to poor design and manufacturing)

The ideal operating temperature of a 10w-60 oil is about 130ºC, which is never going to happen at the top end of an engine used on the road in a moderate climate such as ours.

Especially as is often the case with these engines the thermostat jams open.

This results in more drag, reduced oil flow, cavitation of the oil on the cam/tappet surfaces and hence more wear.

You are basically getting the same effect as you would by driving the car hard before it has got up to temperature, but because the oil is thicker it is happening all of the time.

I also remember a thread over on Alfa156.net, most JTS engines which were dyno'ed produced around 135bhp at the crank.


Personally I think a Fiat Coupe engine conversion, either the 16V or 20V would make the best compromise. The 20V might be a bit of a squeeze, but it would produce as much if not more power than the 3.2, and be better on fuel.