Is it working like a kickdown?

 

The normal selespeed sometimes does this going down a gear which is pretty normal and something us selespeed owners get used to.

If it does it in every gear its more likely to be a pressure problem or clutch issue rather than the actuator itself.

God knows where you'd get one of them from in the uk

 

What do to mean by a kickdown? Sorry, not a term Im familiar with.
It does it in every gear pretty much. My last alfa was a 147 Selespeed and I could keep the accelerator down when I changed up a gear but I've noticed I can't do that in the GTA. I figured that was normal (having to ease up on the accelerator during changes up) but even when I go to reapply the accelerator, it seems to delay releasing the clutch. The length of time varies slightly, it's usually less than a second and after the mechanic worked on it, there's less of a delay and it revs less when I try to accelerate hard in a new gear. The mechanic said there doesn't seem to be any leaks in the system but he just can't confirm the exact problem.
So you think more than likely it's the clutch itself instead of the Selespeed? Would that explain the random incidents when cruising where the engine suddenly revs high for a second or two then catches again? Initially I thought that was a slipping clutch. Thoughts? The mechanic said it would slip all the time if it was (which it doesn't). When I drove it with him, he accelerated hard in each gear and it was fine (which is why he said it isn't a worn disc).

 

Could well be a worn clutch, however you really need to use fiat ecu scan, or what ever it is called now, and have a look at the data from the Selespeed ecu, fault codes etc.
Having a look at the live data, whilst you drive, will help give you a clue as to what is happening.
Things to look for; Selespeed reservoir at correct level, pump output around 55bar, is the pump cycling too frequently-accumulator fault, the sensors for odd & even gears play up- normally get a fault code.

If the engine revs increase, like a slipping clutch, when you are cruising along at constant speed, it could well be the clutch. The clutch shouldn't operate unless you have commanded a gear change.

The calibration is called "end of line", from my experience anyway, is normally all that is required to keep everything in check. I normally do this every 6 mths.

 

Yep, "end of line" test. That's the one the mechanic did the other day. As you said, he used the ECU scanner and said its not coming up with any fault codes now. It is a bit better but not right. I think you might be right, it sounds like the clutch mainly due to the slipping I'm getting when cruising at constant speed without touching the gear lever. Thanks for your help. Sounds like I'm up for a very expensive clutch change. Can you give me an idea of what it should cost me in labour and parts? I'm aware the engine has to come out to do the job. Going to get the water pump and belts done at the same time, having some engine coolant overheating issues too that we've isolated to the water pump...the original one with a plastic impeller.

 

No need to drop the engine to do the clutch, but if you are doing belts & water pump it does make it easier being out.

No idea on labour cost as I did it myself, 8 hrs or so I guess, not much fun especially the starter bolts. I did it with the engine still in. Clutch was around £200 I think.

 

I'd love to give it a go myself but I haven't been able to locate a workshop manual or a decent set of instructions (with diagrams/photos) to do the clutch or the belts. Don't suppose you know where I can find something? Parts sound reasonable in price. Did you just put it up on stands? I've done a bit of work on some older cars in the past but a bit concerned it might be biting off more than I can chew. Did you need any specialty tools?

 

Have a look on flea bay or similar for the manual on cd, no one seems to make a hard copy.

I did it on stands in the carport over a few days, I haven't attempted the cambelts/water pump yet, that's the next job for me, as I also have a suspect water pump.

Special tools would be clutch alignment tool or similar, laptop with the software for the clutch bleed & calibration afterwards, plus plenty of bandages for your knuckles.
At the end of the day it's just nuts & bolts, nothing to be intimidated by.
I am forced to do the work myself as the only dealer in the country is 130km up the road, charges far too much & I wouldn't trust them to find their ar&e with both hands.

 

I have a 156 GTA selespeed and, although I have not experienced any of the issues you have, I'm not convinced it's the clutch. You don't say how many miles the car has done? The selespeed does tend to wear clutches a bit faster than normal manuals, but I've driven mine hard for about 45000 miles now and no sign of clutch wear. It does sound more to do with the selespeed system, although the absence of error codes is puzzling. If it happens at random while cruising (so not accelerating) and it did not happen when the mechanic drove it quite hard, I'd tend to agree with him that it's not the clutch. It sounds like the selespeed is trying to operate the clutch - or not operate the clutch when it should - at random times, so I'd suspect something in the electrical side - Alfas are, after all, infamous for their electrics!!

By the way, I can confirm that you should be able to keep the throttle pressed down while changing up if the revs are more than about 4500, when it goes into "fast change" mode and the gear change is made more quickly. There is a slight jolt (obviously, when banging in a gear suddenly) but nothing bad. It's not something I'd do a lot, but on track it works a charm.

Good luck

 

I'd have to agree with nhserv, that the clutch is more likely to slip under high load than just cruising along. I had missed that when I read your reply.

Is it actually changing gear when this happens? You are right when comparing to the normal Selespeed, you shouldn't have to lift/feather the throttle when changing up, my experience is it confuses the system a bit.
Does it happen in City mode?

Is your friendly mechanic able to go for a drive with the Fiat ECU scan software and see the data from the Selespeed ECU? You could see clutch position, gear selection etc. As nhserv pointed out, Italian electrics maybe the cause. The main connector for the Selespeed, in the engine bay, is on the battery tray close to the thermostat. Wouldn't hurt to disconnect & spray some contact cleaner in there, disconnect the battery first though.

Did you want a copy of the wiring diagram for the Selespeed?

 

The wiring diagram would be great, thanks. Yes, it does happen in city mode too. Every time I drive it I try to get a better idea of what's happening and I think you're right about it not being a slipping clutch. Today I noticed that when Im cruising and come to either a slight slope up or down, I sometimes get the same issue with the revs suddenly jumping. It's like the car is sensing an increase or decrease in load on the transmission and deciding on its own (not in city mode by the way) to apply the clutch. Does that make sense to anyone?
I'll try cleaning the Selespeed connector anyway, you never know. I think the mechanic did drive it with the diagnostic software attached but I'll confirm with him.
Other problem I have is I only have a Mac (no PC) so I don't think I can run the clutch calibration software. Any ideas/options?
By the way nhserv, after you asked about the error codes, I got one the next day. "Selespeed system failure" or something similar. It disappeared after a couple of seconds.

 

Well there is your first clue, the Selespeed failure will be logged in the ecu, even though the fault isn't active. See if you can get the fault code/message. Best done before you disconnect the battery, if you are going to clean the connector.

I got a cheap netbook just for the car, couldn't bring myself to run windows on a Mac. Other options to look into are boot camp or virtualisation software like parallels/fusion, but you will need a copy of windows as well.

PM sent.

 

Could it be a faulty brake switch?

 

Thanks t1fosi, got the Selespeed manual. It all seems to make sense so I'll sort something out with the computer and get the software and cable so I can download the fault codes and find out what's going on.

Maxbg - can you explain how a faulty brake switch could be causing the problem? Would it cause the Selespeed system to think I was slowing and therefore need to downshift? I guess that could explain the random nature of it. What would cause the issue with the brake switch, an earth problem?

 

I think some form of brake information is used to determine clutching out to prevent stalling. Did you check your error history? Any brake switch failure?

 

Haven't been able to check any of the error codes as yet. Still sorting out a computer, cable and the diagnostic software. Do you use AlfaDiag or another version? Any recommendations? I've heard there's a free one out there and you can also possibly use the Fiat software. Advice?

 

I am using AlfaOBD android with elm327 Bluetooth when on the move. I have a full set of adaptor cables with mutiecuscan at home with elm327 USB and KKL Vagcom to take care of the airbag errors.

 

Thanks. I've just ordered an ODB2 Vagcom cable and an elm327 as well. I'm about to pay for the multiecuscan software too. Been doing a bit of research and it seems to be the best of the options out there. I'm happy to pay 50Euro to get something that's comprehensive and going to give me all the info I need to identify and fix problems as well as do things like the "end of line" test.
I've discovered some issues with the water pump too. Seems it has the original with the plastic impeller. I'm in the process of ordering all the parts I need to replace it (plugs, seals, gaskets, belts, idlers, tensioners). The workshop manual is on the way too and I found a pretty good 15 page guide on the process. Any advice? I've worked on some older engines before but I'm a bit nervous about messing with something this modern and specialised. I'll set aside 3 days and take do it methodically I think.

 

have you seen chris155s cambelt change guide? worked fine for me and has everything you need including pics.

 

i could be wrong but it sounds like you need to perform a clutch rod adjustment. when plugged into diagnostics, does it read 28mm/28.5mm or another figure?

just throwing it out there, it's not mentioned above.

 

read here, the rod can be adjusted to compensate for a worn but not totally wrecked clutch:

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...m/alfa-147-156-and-gt/159750-selespeed-clutch-rod-adjustment-with-alfadiag.html

 

there is no clutch rod adjustment for the selespeed in GTA. It is self adjusting to 18mm.

 

Thanks Mathias, that guide is exactly what I need. I think it's better than the ELearn manual. Easier to follow. I have all the parts on order, just tracking down a couple of tools.
Aziraphale - haven't plugged it into the diagnostics yet but I'll definitely check that. That's the first time I've had anyone mention the clutch rod. Would be great if it ends up as simple as that. I'll keep you posted. Planning on doing the work in a week or so. Thanks for the advice. I'd say the clutch is probably somewhat worn by now.

 

Is there not? Whoops.

 

Does anyone know the best way of locking the crank pulley in place whilst removing the locking bolt? I've read about a special locking tool that locks the crank against the sump but can't find one anywhere. Any other methods or tools that will work?

 

Some more detail on the Selespeed issue...

So after driving the car for a couple of months now, and I've tried to take note of all the symptoms with the Selespeed.
1. t1fosi, I took your advice and started changing gears without feathering the accelerator. It definitely still revs high during the change if I keep my foot down. Usually the revs jump between 400-900rpm (depending how hard I'm pushing at the time).
2. If I downshift whilst slowing down (without the accelerator applied), then reapply the throttle quickly, the engine revs high as if the clutch is still applied, then after a couple of seconds, it's like the selespeed suddenly drops the clutch and the gear suddenly grabs and the car jerks and accelerates.
3. Sometimes, after shifting up a gear, the engine appears to settle in gear for a few seconds (at a slightly higher level of rpms than expected), then suddenly it drops another 200rpm to settle where it should be for that particular gear, it's only then that I actually get full power.
4. Occasionally when changing up whilst accelerating, when the next gear is engaged the tacho looks as if it's bouncing a bit (and the engine/car sounds and feels the same way), then after a couple of seconds it settles.
5. Sometimes it still seems as if the system is applying the clutch of its own accord. It seems to happen when I'm cruising and come to a slight rise in the road. It's as if the system senses it's under more load due to the incline and decides it needs to downshift. Problem is I haven't commanded the change and the rise is only very slight, nowhere near enough to warrant a gear change.
Any ideas or advice?

 

Fridge, which mechanic in sydney have you used ?

if you have not already done so, join us at ausalfa.com, and we can point you in the right direction of several very good indepenadant mechs in sydney who should be able to diagnose and rectify your sele issue.

 

Thanks gbernard, I'll do that. I'm not in Sydney at the moment but I do get the from time to time and could probably book something while I'm there.