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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry to post this first on the Newbie Area, but my lack of experience with anything other than a Sinclair ZX81 means I could not work out how to post a thread in other Areas (now mastered).

So, stored my 146 2 litre for 9 months, reconnected battery, started first time, ran fine (after mucking out the idling valve) - but then stopped dead after 2 days. Flat battery. Charged battery - checked charging with ammeter - no contribution from the alternator.

Maybe the alternator passed away peacefully in its sleep while the car was off the road, or maybe something else? I am not keen to rush and replace the alternator as - apart from the money - it appears I shall have to acquire sophisticated gynecological skills to get the old one out and the new one in....

Advice on what might be wrong much appreciated.
 
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The title of this thread is quite alarming.................:eek:

Once a "modern" type battery goes flat (for whatever reason) they usually will not hold charge again for long.

I would blame the battery.

Do not, whatever you do buy a a replacement from Halofrods - go to motor factor and expect to pay circa £35.
 

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Do not, whatever you do buy a a replacement from Halofrods - go to motor factor and expect to pay circa Ј35.
Actually my advice is DO buy a battery from Halfords.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Halfords batteries (been running them in my 'grale for over 12 years) and they come with a 4 year guarantee. This means if it does start giving you grief (or you've managed to knacker the battery yourself) then you just take it back and are given a replacement, no questions asked :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry about disconcerting title....

Yes, I thought the battery might be at fault - so I swapped it for a new one I had in another car - same result after a day's running about - flat.

Thanks for all the advice - but I fear it's on with the rubber gloves time. Does anyone know where I can get a reasonable alternator from - I guess Ebay would be a good start?

PS Nice to see a Lancia owner admitting to his/her addiction.... the Integrale must be the best fun you can have with your clothes on - as long as you replace all your bushes first...
 

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Is the battery light coming on on the dash? If not then the altenator is probably be OK. You can confirm this by placing a multimeter across the battery terminal with the engine running. You should get ~14v showing on the meter.

P.S. The 'grale is running on Powerflexes all round ;)
 

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Meant to add that if the battery is OK then the next step is to set your multimeter to measure current and then connect it in serial with the battery (take the positive connection off the battery then connect one lead of the multimeter to that and the other lead to the positive battery terminal).

You need a 10A multimeter, and whatever you do, don't try and start the car with it in this configuration...just leave the ignition at the OFF position. Then start pulling fuses until you find a significant drop in current. Once you've found this, you've located the wiring circuit that is causing excess drain on the battery with the car switched off. Your next step will then be to start looking at the individual electrical items served by that fuse.
 
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Actually my advice is DO buy a battery from Halfords.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Halfords batteries (been running them in my 'grale for over 12 years) and they come with a 4 year guarantee. This means if it does start giving you grief (or you've managed to knacker the battery yourself) then you just take it back and are given a replacement, no questions asked :D
Who said there was anything wrong with them? :confused:

My advice would still be still do NOT. Read on............

I priced one from Halaords at £65 (that's right, £65) and it did have a 4 yr guarantee. I priced one at a motor factor at £32.00 with a 3 year guarantee, which obviously you also take back if it fails and you get a replacement. No questions asked their, either!

Taking the price differential into account you get two for the price of one from the factor with an amalgamated 6 year guarantee.

If of course you have money to burn - go to Halorods. Or give it to me.

I appreciate that you don't need a battery now and I would go to a breaker rather than Ebay for an alternator (unless of course Halorods will guarantee if for you for 4 years!) :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Meant to add that if the battery is OK then the next step is to set your multimeter to measure current and then connect it in serial with the battery (take the positive connection off the battery then connect one lead of the multimeter to that and the other lead to the positive battery terminal).

You need a 10A multimeter, and whatever you do, don't try and start the car with it in this configuration...just leave the ignition at the OFF position. Then start pulling fuses until you find a significant drop in current. Once you've found this, you've located the wiring circuit that is causing excess drain on the battery with the car switched off. Your next step will then be to start looking at the individual electrical items served by that fuse.
Yes, thanks GailloEvo94, I've done that already. A rather depressing <12v across the battery when running, and a steady loss of between 1 and 3 amp when meter in series (worse when I turn things on like the HRW, heater fan etc).
If the alternation is exporting electricity - it's not getting to the battery!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Meant to add that if the battery is OK then the next step is to set your multimeter to measure current and then connect it in serial with the battery (take the positive connection off the battery then connect one lead of the multimeter to that and the other lead to the positive battery terminal).

You need a 10A multimeter, and whatever you do, don't try and start the car with it in this configuration...just leave the ignition at the OFF position. Then start pulling fuses until you find a significant drop in current. Once you've found this, you've located the wiring circuit that is causing excess drain on the battery with the car switched off. Your next step will then be to start looking at the individual electrical items served by that fuse.
Sorry GailloEvo94 - should have read your post properly (and learnt how to type alternator).
I'm pretty sure there IS excessive drain when the car is off, and I plan to do what you suggest today.
Nevertheless, when I switch an ammeter in series with the battery (once the car is started!) I get a steady loss which increases when I turn things on), and the voltage across the battery just continues to drop slowly. No change to either of these parameters when I rev the car.
Thanks
 

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Who said there was anything wrong with them? :confused:
Then please state the actual reasons when you advise against something because we're not mind readers here and just putting "Do not, whatever you do buy a a replacement from Halofrods - go to motor factor and expect to pay circa £35" tells us nothing about why we shouldn't get one from Halfords. Without any reasons, I'm afraid to say that it's not a particularly helpful statement. As for me, I'm quite happy paying a premium price knowing that I'm getting a premium product. The Halfords battery I have on my Lancia has lasted in excess of 6 years so far and still cranks over the engine like it was new.
 
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Then please state the actual reasons when you advise against something because we're not mind readers here and just putting "Do not, whatever you do buy a a replacement from Halofrods - go to motor factor and expect to pay circa £35" tells us nothing about why we shouldn't get one from Halfords. Without any reasons, I'm afraid to say that it's not a particularly helpful statement. As for me, I'm quite happy paying a premium price knowing that I'm getting a premium product. The Halfords battery I have on my Lancia has lasted in excess of 6 years so far and still cranks over the engine like it was new.
I would have thought it was quite obvious when stating £35 from elsewhere. :( Obviously not, however it's nice that you can afford premium prices. :rolleyes:

Not everybody can, nor will they be happy to pay them and just as an afterthought, our Civic is currently (no pun intended) running a battery from the aforementioned factor, which too has lasted over 6 years and we didn't pay a premium price either - about £24 if memory serves me well, so your "argument" doesn't hold up regarding paying premium prices. Bosch Silver Seals can also be purchased at a considerably lower price than Halofrods too.


So - who actually said there was anything wrong with them?

Not everyboby is right, 100% of the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Back to the far less entertaining matter of my lack of alternator output - I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and fit another one. I've got reasonable offers from breakers for the alternator - but fitting it seems to require taking the car apart.

I don't have access to a proper manual, but I assume that the lower cross member has to come off (together with the wishbones), and the engine has to be supported. From my viewpoint (upside down in the rain) it was not clear whether the driveshaft has to come off as well? I changed the gearbox on this car last year, and the scars have only recently started to heal - the mental scars will be with me for ever.....

Does anyone have a Teletubbies guide to alternator changing?
 

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It's not an easy job unfortunately but the following post will give you some tips...

Alfa145.com - Alternator: Replacement

HTH :)
Its a ba*ta*d of a job unfortunatly!!

I had the pleasure of changing mine 2 weeks after I bought the clover!

The worse bit is getting your hands in there to reach the bolts... Then once you have the bolts out you have to somehow wiggle it about a bit to get it out from behind the drive shaft!! Not good when your lying on the road infront of your house covered in power steering fluid (oh yeah, had to take the power steering fluid pipe off so I could get my hands down there!)...

Think changing the alternator was the wost job iv done on the car... Mind you, wouldnt have been so bad if I had a pit or a ramp...

Sorry mate, but your in for a hard day of graft!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for your help everyone!I thought I'd lost you all as the website appeared to vanish for 2 days.
I'll be having a go at changing the alternator this weekend; more from me (or my executors) next week....
 

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and a steady loss of between 1 and 3 amp when meter in series (worse when I turn things on like the HRW, heater fan etc).
If the alternation is exporting electricity - it's not getting to the battery!
Thats way to much if the car is off. If the car is in the off state, it should only have a leakage of around 40 -70 mA. Not sure of the loads when the car is on, would be interesting if somebody else knew?

Then please state the actual reasons when you advise against something because we're not mind readers here and just putting "Do not, whatever you do buy a a replacement from Halofrods - go to motor factor and expect to pay circa £35" tells us nothing about why we shouldn't get one from Halfords. Without any reasons, I'm afraid to say that it's not a particularly helpful statement. As for me, I'm quite happy paying a premium price knowing that I'm getting a premium product. The Halfords battery I have on my Lancia has lasted in excess of 6 years so far and still cranks over the engine like it was new.
I agree, its more informative if one substantiates there statements. I will go on to say, on about 80% of the time, I believe you get what you pay for.

Its a ba*ta*d of a job unfortunatly!!

I had the pleasure of changing mine 2 weeks after I bought the clover!

The worse bit is getting your hands in there to reach the bolts... Then once you have the bolts out you have to somehow wiggle it about a bit to get it out from behind the drive shaft!! Not good when your lying on the road infront of your house covered in power steering fluid (oh yeah, had to take the power steering fluid pipe off so I could get my hands down there!)...

Think changing the alternator was the wost job iv done on the car... Mind you, wouldnt have been so bad if I had a pit or a ramp...

Sorry mate, but your in for a hard day of graft!
Hell mate, I know its not funny and it must be a hell of a job. But you put it in such a way that I saw the funny side of it. No insult intended please. Well done
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks everyone for all the advice.

In the end I went for the "over the top" option and removed the fuel rail and inlet loops (after detaching the throttle body) - and there was the alternator - nestling between the power steering pump and the firewall. Easy to access and remove.

Nasty bits were removing the bolts securing the induction loops to the block and support bracket (will be easier now I've cut a useless flange off the bracket) and getting the ancillaries belt back on again (you have to make your own long handled 15mm spanner (a normal socket won't work).

I'm happy to write out a fuller SOP for this operation if it would help anyone?

Car now charging and running fine - but why is my 'fuel injection' warning light on......
 

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Thanks everyone for all the advice.

In the end I went for the "over the top" option and removed the fuel rail and inlet loops (after detaching the throttle body) - and there was the alternator - nestling between the power steering pump and the firewall. Easy to access and remove.

Nasty bits were removing the bolts securing the induction loops to the block and support bracket (will be easier now I've cut a useless flange off the bracket) and getting the ancillaries belt back on again (you have to make your own long handled 15mm spanner (a normal socket won't work).

QUOTE]


Firstly, good choice of route in, that's my option too, think I suggeted it earlier, but if you have a 24 inch extension then the t support bracket bolts are easy, and the 2 loop to head bolts can be down by reaching round the back of the throttle body with a 13mm ring. The best fun is get the induction boot clips back on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yes - sorry Smacky - the credit certainly goes to you for suggesting this route in!
I have a mega-long extension, but still found it difficult to get at the driver's side bolt attaching the loops to the supporting bracket. This useless but heavy-duty flange was in the way; presumably it's essential for some Fiat or other.
The 13mm bolt attaching the loops to the induction casting on the passenger side was easy to do from the top with a spanner - the other I had to do from under the car.
I was lucky with the clamps; I unclicked them with a narrow bladed screwdriver, and reclicked them with a pair of adjustable grips.
Thanks again for your help. HGD
 
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