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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After saying that Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows and that they would continue to release updates and upgrades for it, Microsoft have announced Windows 11.


Don't get excited though, your computer will require the presence of a TPM 2.0 chip in order to be able to install it, a standard that was only released in 2019. Utter madness. They'll support Windows 10 until 2025, which is nice.

So if you're looking for a new lappy or desktop, make sure it has TPM 2.0, or plan on installing Linux in 4 years' time.
 

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After saying that Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows and that they would continue to release updates and upgrades for it, Microsoft have announced Windows 11.


Don't get excited though, your computer will require the presence of a TPM 2.0 chip in order to be able to install it, a standard that was only released in 2019. Utter madness. They'll support Windows 10 until 2025, which is nice.

So if you're looking for a new lappy or desktop, make sure it has TPM 2.0, or plan on installing Linux in 4 years' time.
I'll stick with my Linux,Paddy

Have to admit we aren't using the PC much....we all just use our phones now.

I have a work Surface Pro at home running Windows 10 and to be honest it ain't that much faster than my dinosaur Dell PC with the 32bit Lubuntu !!
 

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Besides the 'telemetry' sillinesses, I have little against W10. It's fine for the most part (fat-ish, overdone-ish, but fine-ish. Certainly better in almost every way than some of what MS emitted before), as long as you can ignore the nannying. I made the switch to Linux a few years back and to be honest, it's been a pleasure. Even got Mrs Headloq to switch from her Macbook to a Zenbook running Mint. Occasional "but it's not quite like my Mac" grumble but she's fine with Linux.

The TPM requirement seems a touch silly (yes, I know it's meant to be for The Good Of The People, but my primal inner cynic feels this is a mechanism waiting to be abused by others - FWIW I do have a bit of a background with some of the "others" and with crypto, so at least halfway qualified to comment).

For almost all people it will simply be another prod to buying new hardware "cos I need it" and the cycle will continue. Us gimlet-eyed cynics will forge our own paths regardless.

But yeah ... "The road ends with Windows 10. Maybe. Perhaps. Umm ...". Well, we have no great need to go W11 here in Chez Headloq. Or in the business side of things, if I need W11 for any cunning dev bits. I'll roll me a cloud instance and rent the resources there. Locally, nah.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
There seems to be some confusion about the TPM issue. The Windows Health Check program declares that TPM 2.0 is needed but the Microsoft documentation says only TPM 1.2 is required.


I hope so. That would make more sense to me - only the very latest hardware is going to have TPM 2.0.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'll stick with my Linux,Paddy

Have to admit we aren't using the PC much....we all just use our phones now.

I have a work Surface Pro at home running Windows 10 and to be honest it ain't that much faster than my dinosaur Dell PC with the 32bit Lubuntu !!
Besides the 'telemetry' sillinesses, I have little against W10. It's fine for the most part (fat-ish, overdone-ish, but fine-ish. Certainly better in almost every way than some of what MS emitted before), as long as you can ignore the nannying. I made the switch to Linux a few years back and to be honest, it's been a pleasure. Even got Mrs Headloq to switch from her Macbook to a Zenbook running Mint. Occasional "but it's not quite like my Mac" grumble but she's fine with Linux.

The TPM requirement seems a touch silly (yes, I know it's meant to be for The Good Of The People, but my primal inner cynic feels this is a mechanism waiting to be abused by others - FWIW I do have a bit of a background with some of the "others" and with crypto, so at least halfway qualified to comment).

For almost all people it will simply be another prod to buying new hardware "cos I need it" and the cycle will continue. Us gimlet-eyed cynics will forge our own paths regardless.

But yeah ... "The road ends with Windows 10. Maybe. Perhaps. Umm ...". Well, we have no great need to go W11 here in Chez Headloq. Or in the business side of things, if I need W11 for any cunning dev bits. I'll roll me a cloud instance and rent the resources there. Locally, nah.
I quite like Windows 10 although my main desktop runs Linux. I wouldn't want to run Linux on my laptop - touchscreen, trackpad, trackpoint drivers being what they are on Linux, and the sleep and power-saving functions which never seem to work very well.
 

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I think you're missing the most outrageous part of this scandal.

Start button in the middle of the taskbar? It's enough to make me start looking into a 'freeman of the land' angle to make them stop.
 

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Thank the Lord for that. Phew!
 
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I was under the impression that TPM2.0 was available via firmware (at least on AMD chips) but it was also a requirement for Windows 10 originally, then changed to optional. I could potentially purchase a module for the motherboard, but I know there is also some dispute as to the benefits of TPMs (protect against most attacks, but make others easier).
 

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As for the "final version", I think it's more that you don't have to go out and buy Windows 11 as an upgrade if you already have Windows 10. There is (of course) the increase in hardware requirements that will eventually mean you would need to upgrade, but 10 years isn't too bad. I'm sure more will come out over the coming months - it appears to be more a 10.5 as it's based on the same core but is more than just a quick "skin" upgrade I think. I've not perused all the details yet though.
 

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I quite like Windows 10 although my main desktop runs Linux. I wouldn't want to run Linux on my laptop - touchscreen, trackpad, trackpoint drivers being what they are on Linux, and the sleep and power-saving functions which never seem to work very well.
My experience with my Zenbooks (UX430 i7 and UX305 m7), and a Dell XPS has been very good re device drivers. My power management on teh UX430 was excellent (10-12 hours battery life on Linux vs 9-11 on Win10, oddly) until the other day. Then I tried a more recent kernel. Bad move. Now we are in the 5-10 hour range. Must restore from Timeshift* and fix that!

The sleep/powersave was good. Reference is Mint 20.1 on 5.8 kernel for all the above.

Not being a touchscreen fan, I've not tried touch support under Linux at all.

Paul

* - booting under the previous 5.8 kernel does not resolve the issue now. Usually it does. Not this time. So will be fixing with a brute force Timeshift hammer 🙃 !
 

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I always thought it was an odd decision to call it Windows 10, if this was it why not just call it Windows? At the same time there was an iteration of the Surface Pro which had no number, before they went back to calling them by numbers again. But then Microsoft has a penchant for confusing naming conventions and terminology, Outlook the application and Outlook the consumer email service for example, Skype and Skype for Business which were not interoperable. Then they replaced Skype for Business with Teams which made it even more confusing because now there are teams using teams within Teams.... argh!

My most hated Microsoft terminology, by a mile, is their description of a service hosted on site (ie. not in the cloud) as "on premise". Not premises. Premise. I cannot understand why nobody said to whoever was responsible, "actually, that means something else, you mean premises," before it went in their marketing and documentation. As far as I can tell nobody used the term before they did, they seem to have quietly dropped it now but the damage is done, people everywhere are using it, including some of my colleagues.

I doubt the switch to Windows 11 will be revolutionary. Like people are saying above, there are alternatives if it turns out to be dire. I saw someone quip on another forum that it's intended to, "fix the bug where Windows still works on legacy systems." Wouldn't surprise me!
 

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You guys just don't get it. Like not at all! This is about more than just TPMs (whatever those are). Windows 11 is all about what makes us human and makes life worth living!
Ars Technica said:
Microsoft Chief Product Officer Panos Panay ties the new look to eyebrow-raising statements about emotion: "We understand the responsibility of [functionality and practicality] more than ever before, but it must also be personal—and maybe most importantly, it must feel emotional."

Panay dipped into "emotion" once again while describing the new Start menu and separate newsfeed—"it's what you need, closer to you, simplified," he said of the new center-located Start menu. The new Start menu uses space formerly occupied by newsfeed tiles to instead offer access to recently used documents and applications. "The details matter," Panay said of the new menu, going on to say, "It is the details that enable you to get to that emotional space... to get the work you need done."

Windows 11 is much more than a new theme slapped onto Windows 10
:rolleyes:
 

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But then Microsoft has a penchant for confusing naming conventions and terminology
Don't forget the XBox incremental numbering, which went:
No number
360
1
With varied X's and S's sprinkled around.
 
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We are an Apple Fanboi household as I may have mentioned before - but from a curiosity POV I did just check if my 1 year old, 4GB RAM, HP Laptop would support Windows 11, and - predictably - it apparently will not. What a surprise.

Fortunately - the Microsoft website follows up this piece of "news" with a link to the locations/websites where I can immediately buy a replacement machine that will support W11.

Again. Surprise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
It's a massive shot in the foot from Microsoft I think. At a time when the Windows market share is losing out to Apple, Android, Chromebook and even Linux, this is only going to accelerate the decline.

From what I've managed to glean on-line you'll need at least an 8th generation Intel processor (or AMD equivalent), which was only released in 2017, and a TPM chip. You might need TPM 2.0, or it may work with TPM 1.2 - it's unclear.

In this house we have 6 machines running Windows, of which none are compatible. All except a cheap tablet are capable machines. They all have solid state disks and 8 GB of memory and decent processors. When Windows 10 support runs out in 4 years' time we'll probably have none.
 

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I just ran "WindowsPCHealthCheck" which tests your pc for Win 11 compatibility - it tells me I can't have it, with me not having "Secure Boot" capability. Not to worry though, 11 won't be the first Windows edition I dodge. I was running Win 7 for years (my son still is). I'll just wait for the next one. Microsoft is like the buses - you wait ages for one then three come along together. Once Win 11 falls over there'll be Win 12 in no time.
 

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In this house we have 6 machines running Windows, of which none are compatible. All except a cheap tablet are capable machines. They all have solid state disks and 8 GB of memory and decent processors. When Windows 10 support runs out in 4 years' time we'll probably have none.
Set 'em all up as dual boot Win and Linux ... worst case is they get an extension of life/utility that way. Then again that is not to everyones' taste. But has worked exceedingly well for me.
 

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We are an Apple Fanboi household as I may have mentioned before - but from a curiosity POV I did just check if my 1 year old, 4GB RAM, HP Laptop would support Windows 11, and - predictably - it apparently will not. What a surprise.

Fortunately - the Microsoft website follows up this piece of "news" with a link to the locations/websites where I can immediately buy a replacement machine that will support W11.

Again. Surprise.
My PC needed replacing in early 2016 when Windows 10 hadn't been around for long. At the time I had just updated at work from Windows 8 (goofy interface but really stable) to trial Windows 10 and didn't like it at all. So I bought a Mac. If it had been a couple of years later I might have gone with Windows. Since most people I know reckon they get about ten years out of a Mac I can see the same thing potentially happening. Although it will be out of loyalty to a certain extent, Apple's cloud offering is much more useful (possibly more trustworthy) and their office applications do everything I need without being as eyewateringly expensive as Office.
 
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