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Hello there,

I was looking into 159s, using this forum as a base, and it seems the 159 3.2 version almost never comes into discussion. Always the 2.4 diesel or 2.2 petrol. Why is this?
 

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It was probably one of the least sold models after the TBi.

Not least because by this time, petrol was deemed evil and the tax on these cars was well up to over £400.

The 2.4 Diesel can be well tuned and returns a good economy, and the 2.2 is more typical of what people could afford, especially if they used the car for commuting.

This particular 3.2 is a very classically behaving engine, with an American block, not like the astonishingly efficient 3.0 units you can get in the 3 series or allegedly the new Giulia QV. With this come the consequence of it being a very heavy block, adding to an already heavy car, which can apparently make for some nose heaviness.

Quite frankly, the 3.2 is not a cheap car to run, and petrol owners were being forced out in their thousands by the EU love of diesel. It was never going to be a best seller past 2006 in the UK with the tax changes. BMW had already picked up on this and immediately drove down the consumption on their 3.0 units with the EU nibbling at their tail, and increased the power to easily match that of the 159 3.2 JTS.

Right engine, wrong decade, low sales volumes I'm afraid. You can see the effect on Autotrader and Pistonheads very much. They can typically sell for ~£4000 with good histories. You may find the odd enthusiastic dealer with a Prodrive Brera 3.2 and thinks it's worth £12,000 or so, but compared to other cars in the same class, there is much better.

The 159 TBi for comparison still sells regularly at a lofty £10,000 and higher for a Ti spec (but they are also lower mileage, and younger, but still desirable), as a base price at some used car dealers, and the 2.2 has a wide range because it was the more common petrol engine. The resale value of diesel cars is also quite reasonable for this model, with the uptake being better for people blinkered by diesel, but only do ~5000 miles a year.

I think you are just looking at low numbers of owners really.

*Let the flaming begin*

:evil1:
 

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Ough... Timing chain replace for 22JTS may seem like a fiesta versus 32JTS one.
32JTS are Q4 version mainly. Cardan issues are also nice to learn.
:biglaugh:
 

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I'm with David all the way..... The Busso engine may have been long in the tooth, but it was still a wonderfully characterful engine that produced reasonable power. Putting in an American derived unit was never going to win many fans with Alfa in my opinion, whether it was any good or not (and it is quite good I think). Alfa drivers are, very often, real enthusiasts and the basic ethos of what makes a fine car is going to be poles apart between Italy and America.

Fold in sky-high taxes and the fact that modern diesels can be fun (how bizarre is that!), and there's a good reason. The weight is an issue too; my 2.4 starts misbehaving on corners when pushed hard, going from the classic under steer and snapping into oversteer. I should imagine the extra weight of the 3.2 would make the problem even worse. I'd love to drive the 1750 tbi, I bet that's a real hoot.
 
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To the OP

You are absolutely right there is not much discussion on these boards about the 3.2 JTS because
a) Not that many folk own one.
b) Those that do tend not to fret quite so much on these boards about MPG (a favourite topic of the DERV'ists) and are without other DERV-related issues around DPF, EGR, swirl flaps etc, and the 3.2 has a solid gear box and there's a long-lasting timing chain rather than the rather flaky belt/water pump combo on certain Alfa models.

Running costs are loaded onto fuel and tax. MPG is a diabolical-17 urban, 27 motorway.
Mind you, the 2.4 JTD is equally shocking for a diesel-around 10 mpg better across the board. The 2.2 petrol is somewhere in between.

David WB is right in that it was very unpopular new due to tax and the rush to diesel. They are however not nose heavy in the majority of models that are 4-wheel drive. Arguably this set-up would improve the 2.4 JTD's handling too.

As David indicated they sell for buttons on Autotrader, and represent a huge amount of car for the money. Superb value and a great used car proposition if you are not doing too many miles. Back when I was buying in 2014 you could get a 50k 3.2 SW for £5k or a newer 30k TBI TI SW for £15k.
 

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My old 159 3.2 V6 is currently for sale, a couple of weeks ago is was up for £4995 but today I noticed it is £1500 as the engine won't start :(
 

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Running costs are loaded onto fuel and tax. MPG is a diabolical-17 urban, 27 motorway.
Mind you, the 2.4 JTD is equally shocking for a diesel-around 10 mpg better across the board.
David WB is right in that it was very unpopular new due to tax and the rush to diesel. They are however not nose heavy in the majority of models that are 4-wheel drive. Arguably this set-up would improve the 2.4 JTD's handling too.
I've got a 2.4 Q4 Sportwagon and I'm getting (Indicated) 30 plus around town and have seen 50 plus on a (sedate) run. "Normal" motorway speeds I tend to get just over 40. EGR is blanked and deleted but DPF still there as are the swirl flaps.


I've never driven a front wheel drive 159 so can't comment on understeer/oversteer but I've yet to experience either. And I tend not to hang about on the twisty bits :biglaugh: Obviously it's not in the same league as the Stratos but it still impresses in it's own way.

Guy
 

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This particular 3.2 is a very classically behaving engine, with an American block, not like the astonishingly efficient 3.0 units you can get in the 3 series or allegedly the new Giulia QV. With this come the consequence of it being a very heavy block, adding to an already heavy car, which can apparently make for some nose heaviness.



f
I'm with David all the way..... The Busso engine may have been long in the tooth, but it was still a wonderfully characterful engine that produced reasonable power. Putting in an American derived unit was never going to win many fans with Alfa in my opinion, whether it was any good or not (and it is quite good I think). Alfa drivers are, very often, real enthusiasts and the basic ethos of what makes a fine car is going to be poles apart between Italy and America.
The 159 3.2 V6 was actually Australian sourced and built in Australia, it was modified and tuned by Alfa to the amazement of the GM technicians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JTS_engine#3.2

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-andamp-946-spider/179887-alfas-3-2-159-gm-engine.html

It was very heavy on fuel consumption, the 2.4 JTDm had 400Nm of torque and represented a better match for the weight of the 159

I have, and never had, any problems with the extra armour of the 159 as it saved my life in a 100kph side-on shunt into a guard rail with a B Double prime mover that wanted to enter my cabin
 

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I've got a 2.4 Q4 Sportwagon and I'm getting (Indicated) 30 plus around town and have seen 50 plus on a (sedate) run. "Normal" motorway speeds I tend to get just over 40. EGR is blanked and deleted but DPF still there as are the swirl flaps.

I've never driven a front wheel drive 159 so can't comment on understeer/oversteer but I've yet to experience either. And I tend not to hang about on the twisty bits :biglaugh: Obviously it's not in the same league as the Stratos but it still impresses in it's own way.

Guy
I'm sure you're right about your MPG, but there is a lot of rubbish written by DERV drivers about their claimed economy. My old man drove a 2.4 SW for 7 years and never got near 30 round town, nor ever averaged over 40 on motorway journeys. Maybe he was unlucky!

You did well to source a Q4 2.4 JTD, and in SW form too. Rare as hen's teeth and undoubtedly the best model for doing high miles in. It would not have been cheap to buy though?
 

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Quote "Quite frankly, the 3.2 is not a cheap car to run, and petrol owners were being forced out in their thousands by the EU love of diesel. It was never going to be a best seller past 2006 in the UK with the tax changes. BMW had already picked up on this and immediately drove down the consumption on their 3.0 units with the EU nibbling at their tail, and increased the power to easily match that of the 159 3.2 JTS."

Now the EU have fallen out of love with diesel and petrol is the better of the 2 evils!!!! Never mind according to pundits we will all be driving electric cars in 10 years time, that's not going to happen. These people live in dream land. Electricity has to be produced and that in itself will cause problems, if we were all going to drive electric cars, there wouldn't be enough electricity to go round. The UK at the moment is on a fine line for electricity, several power stations have gone, with nothing to replace them, in bed with the Chinese for nuclear power, What the hell happened to our industrial and engineering heritage. Why we can't build these things for ourselves I can't imagine when you think what we built in the past.:depressed:
If there are only 4 cars listed, no wonder you can't find one, another Alfa blip!
 

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These people live in dream land. Electricity has to be produced and that in itself will cause problems, if we were all going to drive electric cars, there wouldn't be enough electricity to go round. The UK at the moment is on a fine line for electricity, several power stations have gone, with nothing to replace them, in bed with the Chinese for nuclear power, What the hell happened to our industrial and engineering heritage. Why we can't build these things for ourselves I can't imagine when you think what we built in the past.:depressed:
If there are only 4 cars listed, no wonder you can't find one, another Alfa blip!
I used to work as a design draughtsman for GEC Turbine Generators. The French took it away, however I guess if not them then it might have been someone else.

We used Babcock for boilers and lots of European companies. I was involved with quite a few power stations we built in China. The Chinese had strict contract rules. Basically we had to hand over detail drawings and make sure the work force out in China was largely Chinese etc.

Framatome were the people we worked with (French) as GEC and then GEC Alsthom for nuclear. The French then were certainly the leaders in the world for Nuclear power. Not sure if that is still the case.

Anyway all gone, manufacturing and design. I think GE recently acquired what was "GEC Turbine Generators" from Alstom. I believe Areva own Framatome.
 
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I'm sure you're right about your MPG, but there is a lot of rubbish written by DERV drivers about their claimed economy. My old man drove a 2.4 SW for 7 years and never got near 30 round town, nor ever averaged over 40 on motorway journeys. Maybe he was unlucky!

You did well to source a Q4 2.4 JTD, and in SW form too. Rare as hen's teeth and undoubtedly the best model for doing high miles in. It would not have been cheap to buy though?
Not cheap to buy and took the best part of a year to track down. I'd all but given up and Veloces got one of the (supposed) 4 Sportwagon Q4 Ti's in. I suspect that there are a few more out there but it's small numbers either way. Must have been a company car first as it's specced to the limit! I think trizone climate and auto mirror dimming/seat memory/auto folding mirrors are the only things not added to it.

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-andamp-946-spider/915466-lands-end-to-johnogroats-on-one-tank.html

Guy
 

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Thankfully here in NZ Alfa mainly imported the 3.2. After running a 3.2 busso (156 GTA) the GM engine did take a bit of getting used to - its not as good sounding or looking...but not having a cam belt to replace every few years is a big plus .

While it is not as instantly responsive (stock) as the busso, power delivery keeps on building - and it can't be too harshly judged given it is pulling a much heavier car than in comparison to Busso's in GT's or 156's etc.
 

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Because everybody want's to drive cheap with a diesel. Would you believe that when I bought my 2.2 it was the only one for sale here in Slovakia and when I went to do the MOT the guys at the MOT station had to call to MOT HQ to get the right numbers to test my car because non one was ever tested here? All here are oil burners :p
 
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