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Discussion Starter #1
This is going to be a long post so if you suffer from ADD now is a good time to find something shorter to read. You have been warned.

There's been quite a few posts recently comparing Italian cars to German cars and there is nothing wrong with that, obviously. But some people do strange things like comparing the Giulietta to top of the range BMW 3-series models. The fact that these two vehicles are not in the same market segment and that one costs a lot less than the other doesn't seem to register. Sometimes I really wish we could get the BMW disciples to push off to a BMW forum and do their Alfa bashing there but we live in a free world and I guess it is their good right to do it here. And we have to be tolerant of others, if nothing else BMW drivers at least make the road rage scene a bit more vibey.

Anyway, one of these said the other day the Giulietta would be better if it was more like the Golf. Let's look at that, shall we? I can only speak for myself but I have plenty of personal, first hand experience with both as I've owned 3 of one and 2 of the other.

To make the Giulietta be more like the Golf the Giulietta will have to look more like the Golf. Oooh, that's going to be difficult. Giulietta is the supermodel that has to do nothing to look awesome on the catwalk, Golf is the ugly, fat girl at the back of the room that must please stay away from the catwalk. To make the Giulietta looks more like the Golf Alfa will have to get it to also look fat, wobbly and sad and I'm not sure it's in the Italian genes to design a car that looks like that. I'm afraid as far as this is concerned the Giulietta won't become more like the Golf.

Rattles. My pet hate. Five years into Giulietta ownership and I am still waiting for the first rattle or squeak. How can Alfa get the interior that wrong? What they can maybe do is use the same fantastic quality plastics VW uses in the Golf. Then they can get more people on the showroom floor, sitting in a stationary car oooh-in and aaah-ing about the incredible perceived quality. Then they start driving the thing, not long after, back to the dealer because it sounds like a bucket of bolts. And back again, and again, and again until they eventually accept the fact that, as the mechanic says, it is not possible to fix all the rattles so best you live with it. Oh well, I'll stick to my hot Italian, life without rattles isn't that bad.

Reliability. The Inconvenient Truth is that the Giulietta is a more reliable car than the Golf. A lot more reliable. 5 years of blissful Giulietta ownership and not even one tiny issue? No man, that is terrible, we have to get the Giulietta to be more like the Golf. Alfa will have to do a lot, though. They will have to get the clutches on their manual cars to wear out a lot faster, like 6000 mile fast. There is plenty if entertainment value for the dealers when they tell the client he burned out his clutch because he abused the car or because he doesn't know how to drive a manual car. When the client tells him he had 8 cars before, all of them manual, none of them needing a new clutch even at 100 000 miles all he gets is a very blank stare. Like the lights are on but no-one's there. Alfa will also have to do a lot of work on TCT to make it as unreliable and problematic as DSG. I'm not sure Alfa is capable of making it that bad so I guess most of us will just have to accept the fact that we won't, like I did as a Golf owner, experience the joys of owning a 25000 mile car with it's third DSG box. Oh well, can't have it all.

Engine wise Alfa is also not up to scratch, they will have to do a few things to be more like the Golf. They can start by dropping power drastically. They will have to take Multiair down from 125Kw to 90-ish otherwise it will never be the same as TSi. And let's not talk about the 1750. That they will have to drop that from 177Kw to around 132Kw otherwise it will never get close to the Golf's 1800 engines. Oooh, Alfa will have to lose their sporting heart completely to achieve this but it will make the Giulietta more like the Golf so that's a good thing. Isn't it?

Alfa will also have to find out who makes turbo's and piston rings for VW otherwise the Giulietta will never pop turbos as well as the Golf does. And unless they can find the same piston rings VW uses on some Golf engines they will never achieve the same massive oil consumption either.

All in all I am very grateful the Giulietta is not more like the Golf. And I hope it stays that way, forever!
 

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because the VW Golfs/Polos/Jettas/Beetles are some of the most boring mundane lifeless mechanically deficient washing machine cars on the road, VW have taken automotive design and passion, lowered it to a level only they can understand and taken it back to the drab pre WW2 war days when Hitler thought every folk should own a folksmobile and just putter merrily merrily down a Munich street going beep beep beep ...

...and then there are the ITALIANS


and never the twain shall meet

:smoker::readit:
 

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:biglaugh: this should be in the rant room :biglaugh:
It should be in Honest John, What Car? Auto Express and everywhere else the deluded VW buyer lurks!:beer:
 
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Discussion Starter #5
because the VW Golfs/Polos/Jettas/Beetles are some of the most boring mundane lifeless mechanically deficient washing machine cars on the road, VW have taken automotive design and passion, lowered it to a level only they can understand and taken it back to the drab pre WW2 war days when Hitler thought every folk should own a folksmobile and just putter merrily merrily down a Munich street going beep beep beep ...

...and there are the ITALIANS


and never the twain shall meet

:smoker::readit:
Well said! Thing is, Germany and Italy are both in Europe but that is where the similarity ends. The Italians know how to enjoy the good things in life and it shows in everything they do. Architecture, food, design, fashion, they just do things differently. I love going to Italy, look at them having a night out somewhere. Plates piled high with simple, delicious food, wine glasses that miraculously stay full into the wee hours, overflowing ashtrays. Wonderful! Germany is, well, not like that. So it goes without saying that cars from Italy will be different than cars from Germany and we are the lucky ones because we get that. Despite all the ups and downs over the years there is passion behind the Alfa badge, just like there is passion in everything else they do. They are not trying to be German and I love them for that.

I'll stop ranting now. Sorry.
 

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If Alfa's were like Golf's they would be everywhere.

We would then need to buy something else to stand out from the crowd.

Also depreciation. It means us that cannot afford (or don't want to buy a new car) can get a much newer and lower mileage car for the money.

If they were more like a Golf they would be worth more secondhand due to the sheep buying them in flocks.
 

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I'd have bought my new Giulietta even if it was popular and I reckon it's holding its value ok really. If it's not then I'm not giving it away to somebody who just wants " its a lot of car for the money".
 

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I think they hold their value pretty well also.

Especially compared to mainstream stuff like Vauxhall Astras and Ford Focuses.

I suppose that is one benefit of them not being sold to fleets.
 

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Then why wheel out the Alfa depreciation cliche?
They tried fleet sales, hence the service intervals on earlier cars. Fiat and their associate companies employ enough people to launder a few onto the roads despite them not being in daily rental like they were. Ford are being careful to avoid dumping cars onto fleets nowadays whereas the GM boys are more desperate.
 

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Err , I believe you err a bit?

Hardly a significant difference in the drop.

That's from list too,for similar list price Golf and Giulietta.
 

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I had a look at similar aged Golfs before buying my G, 60 plate cars with about 60k miles up were around 2k more expensive for comparable engines.
 

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To coin a Clarkson phrase.. If someone just needs a good hatchback, buy a Golf.

VW have the market cornered in this sector as the Golf is the car to have, just look at the numbers sold, plus it's well branded by the might of their marketing machine.

My favourite VW of all time is a '91 Corrado G60 in White.. VW at its best IMO and I wish I had one.

Their entry S and SE Golf models are poorly equipped unless you hit the options list. I certainly wouldn't pay £30k for one!

And yes, she's become a fat girl in her old age.. Too much bratwurst :lol:
 

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Well said! Thing is, Germany and Italy are both in Europe but that is where the similarity ends. The Italians know how to enjoy the good things in life and it shows in everything they do. Architecture, food, design, fashion, they just do things differently. I love going to Italy, look at them having a night out somewhere. Plates piled high with simple, delicious food, wine glasses that miraculously stay full into the wee hours, overflowing ashtrays. Wonderful! Germany is, well, not like that. So it goes without saying that cars from Italy will be different than cars from Germany and we are the lucky ones because we get that. Despite all the ups and downs over the years there is passion behind the Alfa badge, just like there is passion in everything else they do. They are not trying to be German and I love them for that.

I'll stop ranting now. Sorry.
also because nobody ever said

"Youre not a true petrolhead until youve driven a Volkswagen"
or
"Every time I see a Volkswagen pass by, I tip my hat"


lol
 

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while on the subject of famous quotes, just a bit of information and background regarding Henry Ford's famous quote, its origins, context and the conversation that revolved around the old concept that quantity doesnt necessarily equate to quality

Afra s.a.s. - Alfanatics Alfa Romeo Tales History adventures novels Chapter Volume front page Alfa Romeo past copy collection



Alfa Romeo and Henry Ford's hat.

"Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by , I lift my hat."

Many people say that this phrase is a legend or a lie that becomes the truth when you continue to repeat it. Griffith Borgeson, famous and competent historian of the motor-car, in his book " The Alfa Romeo tradition", in the chapter regarding Mr.Ugo Gobbato, Alfa Romeo's president from 1933 to 1945, writes as follows:


"Every time I see and Alfa Romeo pass by , I lift my hat". It has been repeated countless times in Alfa company literature and perhaps as often in independent writings. I have asked company people for the source of this rather unlikely legend , but none of them has been able to reply with more than a shrug of the shoulders, A letter addressed to the Ford Archives in the united states brought this answer : "This has come up before , and we 've never been able to verify it. It is implausible and apocryphal".

Imagine my surprise, then , when , in the middle of a long interview session with Dr. Ing.Pierugo Gobbato in 1988 he let drop this morsel: << I remember that my father visited Henry Ford in Dearborn in 1939. That was when Mr Ford said to him: " When I see an Alfa Romeo , I lift my hat">>

"So that is the origin of that story", I said, "How did Mr Ford happen to say it?"

<< Well, he asked my father, "How many cars do you make per day? >> "My father exaggerating a bit on the high side, said, "oh about six". And Mr Ford laughed and said , "I make six in a minute".

"Aside from that , do you know how Mr Ford came by any opinion at all about Alfa cars?" I asked "very few ever came to the states in those days".

"I seem to remember that in 1938. Mr Ford had examined an Alfa Romeo 8C 2900 roadster that had been bought by a member of the Rockefeller Family. In any case , I know that I respected their design and workmanship".

"But -Tutte le volte-, as one usually sees in print , makes it sound as thought he saw Alfas fairly frequently".

Mr Ford has been misquoted . He didn't say "Every time I see one", he said "When I see one". My father recounted that episode to me, and the exact words are still clear in my mind.





for the record ;-)
 

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Well if you check other big selling cars they tend to have a few faults as well, but that VW Golf list is epic. :biglaugh:

I am glad I didn't pay the extra for a 170bhp Diesel Golf.
 

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Well if you check other big selling cars they tend to have a few faults as well, but that VW Golf list is epic. :biglaugh:

I am glad I didn't pay the extra for a 170bhp Diesel Golf.
That list is longer than the shopping receipts from when my girls go shopping at Blue Water :lol:
 

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EURO NCAP 5 stars passenger protection, 4 stars child protection, 3 stars pedestrian protection.

Highest score ever with 97% for adult protection, 84% for child protection, 61% for pedestrian protection and 71% for safety assist.
and this isn't true anymore from the "good points"
 
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