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The government would have you believe it is a simple calculation, just look at their pay packet! Anyone earning less than, lets say, £30k pa is unskilled, simples. Only it isn't that simple is it? There are plenty of people earning less than £30k like nurses, police officers, firemen, social care workers and HGV drivers who I would consider to be very skilled. On the flip side there are many people earning a lot more than £30k who, as Jess Phillips said in the House of Commons, "I wouldn't trust to hold my pint because they'd do it wrong!" The obvious group to look at is politicians, an MP earns a basic salary of around £73k plus they get all sorts of expenses on top. A lot of them have come out of industry or banking or are lawyers and have some valuable skills to offer, however, there is a percentage who seem to possess no discernable skills whatsoever!

So, come on AO what do you consider a reasonable definition of skilled or unskilled, is it purely down to salary?
 

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The use of “unskilled” over and over in a tv news report on this subject made me very uncomfortable. You just need to watch episodes of American Undercover Boss to see the multimillionaire boss trying to do the jobs of their unskilled employees to see how ridiculous this term can be. It’s actually quite a skill, it turns out, to operate the drive-thru bit of a junk food outlet. One that the skilled-pay boss cannot do.
 

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Caravan sales manager....a few qualifications but very little actual skill! Rather more then 30k though. I've sold stuff (cars, caravans, motorcycles) pretty much since I left school 35 years ago.....so you could say my only real "skill" is talking to people! Ironically most that know me consider me a pretty skilled car mechanic and DIYer....and I earn sod all from that! (the odd few and far between paid job to be honest but mostly helping mates out and my own cars)....although I did for a year or so when I first left school. Too much like actual hard work for my liking! Lol. Love doing it in my spare time though.
 

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As usual the Government, their advisors and Civil Servants based in London cannot see what the world outside the M25 is really like. What is required and paid for a basic wage in the Metropolis bears little resemblance to what is paid even for skilled jobs in the industrial heartlands of the north.
The other issue is whether or not a graduate (with a non technical or non professional degree) should be paid more than a craftsman (with a trade qualification that proves their ability) just because they have a degree.
 

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The government are very aware of the north-south salary divide. They have plans to move civil service departments up north to save on salary bills. Even for people who are from the south will have to sell up or lose their jobs. There’s a plan to move the House of Lords to the north. Those of them with property in York stand to make some money and the media will either move there or not follow what’s going on.
 

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If the government is fully aware of the north-south salary divide why are they proposing a single "one size fits all" salary limit on determining who can come here to work?
Suggesting moving the HoL smacks of wanting to get rid of something that certain advisors consider an anomaly or irrelevance and want out of sight and mind.
 

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Maybe the best way of determining whether a job is 'skilled' or 'unskilled' is to look at how long it takes for someone to get good at said job. If you can get good at it in a few weeks/months then its unskilled. If it takes a few years to become decent, its a skilled job. Somewhere in the middle; semi-skilled?
 

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I generally think anyone could do my job. You find problems, and you solve them using common sense, logic, and if they fail ask the specialists.

But I'm led to believe that I'm good at it - so this is probably another element of my imposter syndrome.
 

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The government are very aware of the north-south salary divide. They have plans to move civil service departments up north to save on salary bills. Even for people who are from the south will have to sell up or lose their jobs. There’s a plan to move the House of Lords to the north. Those of them with property in York stand to make some money and the media will either move there or not follow what’s going on.
The government are very aware of the north-south salary divide. They have plans to move civil service departments up north to save on salary bills. Even for people who are from the south will have to sell up or lose their jobs. There’s a plan to move the House of Lords to the north. Those of them with property in York stand to make some money and the media will either move there or not follow what’s going on.
It saves very little on salaries because London weighting isn't that much. Anyone who does move usually does so at crown expense and keeps their salary on a marked time basis until wages in the provinces catch up (which is likely to be never). We had a round of this in the 90s. I know several people who moved from the south east to Manchester, sold their expensive houses (via a crown agent so you get the valuation), bought something much bigger up here, and paid off most of their mortgages.

The big saving is in property costs.
 

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Maybe the best way of determining whether a job is 'skilled' or 'unskilled' is to look at how long it takes for someone to get good at said job. If you can get good at it in a few weeks/months then its unskilled. If it takes a few years to become decent, its a skilled job. Somewhere in the middle; semi-skilled?

And how many people could learn it quickly - because that is the factor that determines wages.

Street sweeping - anybody could do it with a morning’s training. Definitely unskilled. Low wages

Oracle database admin - a small subset of people could pick this up in 6 months, but most people can’t. Skilled. High wages.

It’s all about how much an employer has to pay to get a competent bum on the seat. If there are loads of people who can fill the role, then the wages will be poor. Employers will move to automate and deskill roles to increase the pool of people.

Using the McDonalds example - running a drive through window is quite hard. But taking the order via a screen and the computer telling the operator to cook a Big Mac is easy. Which is why MaccyDs is going touch screen.
 

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Maybe the best way of determining whether a job is 'skilled' or 'unskilled' is to look at how long it takes for someone to get good at said job. If you can get good at it in a few weeks/months then its unskilled. If it takes a few years to become decent, its a skilled job. Somewhere in the middle; semi-skilled?
Not so, someone with common sense and an ability to learn quickly may become useful at the job very quickly. Someone who has no practical aptitude or common sense, which could include an academic type, might take ages to gain a clue as to how to master the task. Is that job then unskilled for the person with common sense who learns quickly but skilled for the dim wit?
 

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No degree. No trade. Probably means no entry if they implement it. Minimum wage jobs do not equal the cost of living, hence people having to claim “ in work benefits “ the less of two evils according to some MP’s the reason they create Tax Credits, UC.
There’s little point letting people in to just earn minimum wage. There’s enough potential low earners out of work already.


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Minimum wage jobs do not equal the cost of living, hence people having to claim “ in work benefits “
Is that so? I thought if you worked full time (35 hrs per week) on minimum wage, your income would exceed £15000 and therefore not be classified as low income, so no benefits.
 

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Sorry, I should of mentioned families married or single with dependant children. I think there’s a cap for singletons without children


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In the 1940's my Great Grandfather worked as a Labourer/Farm helper and he managed to support 7 children and his (House) wife and rent a large 3 bedroom house with a huge garden.

You couldn't do that now, especially in Oxfordshire.

But we keep getting told how much better off we are now.
 

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In the 1940's my Great Grandfather worked as a Labourer/Farm helper and he managed to support 7 children and his (House) wife and rent a large 3 bedroom house with a huge garden.

You couldn't do that now, especially in Oxfordshire.

But we keep getting told how much better off we are now.
He might have had property, but I bet they will have consumed next to nothing in both consumer goods and services compared to a modern family.
 

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He might have had property, but I bet they will have consumed next to nothing in both consumer goods and services compared to a modern family.
I am sure they didn't as stuff just wasn't available. Kids would have just played outside in the streets instead of at home with their computer games.
 
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