[csaszara]

Hi Guys,

I have an AR 159 1.9 JTS.
Does it also has the GM problematic M32 gearbox?

Thanks,
Attila

 

[epsonix]

As far as I know yes, especially as this engine is from Opel, but I would not get too much worried - 1.9JTS engine produces low torgue (especially at low rpm) vs. gearbox max specs, so gearbox is not so stressed comparing to e.g. 1.9JTDM or 1.75TBI. I used to have JTDM 2nd hand (bought it 2nd hand with 50kkm mileage), gearbox bearings were roaring from time I bought it (but that never increased over years). I only changed oil (was usd/dirty with tiny metalic fractions) and 2 differential bearings (that was easy enough to do but did not helped on roaring), then did 50kkm with no change to roaring (maybe fresh oil helped?), then I decided to do ECU program upgrade (190KM/380Nm) and happily used the car for further 35kkm, then decided to do gearbox repair (I knew that I will have problm selling car with roaring). Repair itself wasn't too expensive (in dealer service it is) - the guy from polish alfa romeo forum did the repair for me, cost of 6 Timken bearings was like EUR140, 3L of Tutela Matryx (we put 2.8L on dry gearbox, so extra 0.5L as recommended by M32 gurus) EUR35, and labour EUR 125 - that was cheap, and guy had a way of repairing gearbox without removing it from car. After repair I did further 10kkm, but then sold the car (needed SW + I wanted more fresher car and petrol). I know that dealers services in Poland charge like EUR 700-800, and sometimes they decide only change 1-2 damaged bearings (if you come across need of repair ever, alway change all 6, and use Timken only - that is recommendation of all polish M32 gurus I came across on forum)

I have M32 gearboox in currently owned 159 1.75TBI, and did ECU mod to 240BHP/370Nm, as far all good, but the car has only 55kkm mileage, and ECU mod was done only 3kkm ago. Anyway I do not get at all stressed by fact of having M32.
I changed oil (TBI M32 has 0.3L less manufacturer spec), added extra 0.25L, and added around 0.2L of AR9100.

If your bearings do not roar yet, I suggest you change the oil (do say 10-20km just before oil change, so you well warm the oil, and so more of old/used oil will go out of your gearbox), put extra 0.25L, and add someting like 0.25L of Archoil AR9100. If you only change oil, gearbox can't be treated as dry, so around 2.1L (vs 2.3 in user manual) fits in to be as much as manufacturer recommendation, then you add 0.25L extra and then 0.25L of Archoil.

There is hope that you will never experience problem of M32. Good example is my friends father 159 1.9JTDM from 2005 with 200kkm mileage - it is still quiet, no roaring at all - he didn't even changed gearbox oil ever, but just as old man he drives the car more carefully, so maybe that is change factor (no stresses to gearbox).

With 1.9JTS, I would rather get more worried about timing chain (but that can also be sorted out cheap using GM parts, as far as I know most fit - except cog/chaing wheels (not sure what is right english term), but these usually do not need to be changed) - keep engine oil rather close to max level, as well you can use AR9100 (around 0.2L for engine).

 

[symon]

I would say that it is just as likely to have issues as on the 2.2 and the 1.9 diesel.

The reason you don't hear about afilures on the 1.9 Petrol is that not many of them were sold.


It isn't a torque issue which causes them to fail, it is a lubrication issue due to a design flaw within the box.


To top it all the 1.9JTS is underpowered in a car of the 159's weight.

 

[epsonix]

I would say that it is just as likely to have issues as on the 2.2 and the 1.9 diesel.

The reason you don't hear about afilures on the 1.9 Petrol is that not many of them were sold.


It isn't a torque issue which causes them to fail, it is a lubrication issue due to a design flaw within the box.

We agree it is lubrication problem, likely that's why a lof ot Opel/Alfa M32 gurus say to add 0.5L more of oil than in official spec says. My gut tells me that if there is poorer lubrication, then it is more of the problem for M32 setup with higher torque engines such 1.9JTDM/1.75TBi than for non-turbo charged 1.9/2.2JTS engines. That does not of course exclude cases where JTS will also suffer for the issue, but likely problems happens at later time and/or on fewer percentage of cars.

Reading posts on AO I have impression that there is quite a lot of real complaining on M32 (like I will never ever buy acar with M32 etc)
M32 is weak side of relevant 159s, all right, but my point is that I would no worry for future - if there is no roaring today, I would just change oil + add extras I mentioned, and enjoy driving beautiful car. Good chance all will be fine for years. As I said in earlier post, I did 85kkm with roaring bearings, and that did no cause any harm to gearbox. I suspect that fresh oil and some gearbox oil additive I can't remember name today I put in that time stopped gearbox degradation. Full repair cost was only EUR300 and issue disappeared completely, all good since 10kkm.

I bought another 159, with another M32, and I sleep well, and I recommend that approach to other M32 owners.

To top it all the 1.9JTS is underpowered in a car of the 159's weight.

depends what you expect from the car. For me TBI was underpowered, so I did ECU mod to 240BHP/370Nm, and still I won't say it is a rocket.
But a lot of people are happy - I remember 7 years ago I driven 1.9JTS and my impression was good (though I driven in that time 103BHP hatchback, so JTS seemed like much more powerfull car)
Not sure if on your market it was offered 159 1.8MPI - in Poland it was - it was old type Opel engine with 140BHP, I never driven one, but those who own this, again are rather happy with it. This is only engine 159 which tolerates LPG modification well, and where mod is chip, so you can drive the car cheap (half price of petrol in Poland), so for those who just want comfortable car, drive carefully, that is still fine. Depends on needs.

 

[csaszara]

Thanks guys 4 your help, especially 4 epsonix 4 the very detailed answer!:thumbup:

 

[BuonGiorno]

any mechanical gearbox interior is lubricated by revs. more revs is better lubrication.
higher engine torque request lower revs to propel vehicle same way.
M32 issues is a back story for better MPG gains. M32 does not like 50mph drive with 6th gear featuring 1600-1650 revs producing poor lubrication. All MPG benefits are in fact to be spent for M32 gearbox repair.