Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
When it's being asked to power a 159. Had my first experience of this new model yesterday when SGT provided me with a pleb-spec 1.9 JTS model as a courtesy car for the day.

First impressions? Well made, excellent driving position and driver environment, reasonably quiet, good ride, good steering feel. And bloody good looking!

But that engine! There's been a good deal already posted on this forum about the impact of the recent Alfa models' weight on performance but in reality, it's quite astonishing. Back in '96 I owned a 155 V6 with a relatively paltry 167HP - it absolutely flew. In contrast, the 160 HP 159 simply struggled to make progress and when wringing it out through the gears, there was barely any sensation of acceleration. It felt more like 110-120HP at best. I can only imagine that the 2.2's 185 are themselves only just fit for purpose in that respect and I'm now worried about the V6, the forthcoming Ti version of which is on my 2007 shopping list.

The forecast 159 weight reduction programme can't happen soon enough....:tut:
 

·
AO Car Of The Year Winner 2015
Joined
·
3,202 Posts
joegals said:
The forecast 159 weight reduction programme can't happen soon enough....:tut:
I read 75 kg in end of 2007 and 75kg in 2008. Maybe you could get one "diet" model in the end of the year.

I test drove the 150bhp JTDm. First thing the dealer told me was an apology that they sold the 2,4JTD and I can drive only the 1,9. I understood later, the feeling of 150bhp in such a heavy car will not impress new buyers very much.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,710 Posts
I was reading the new edition of Pratical Classics last night.

They reviewed an MG Maestro Turbo...which, with only 150 bhp did 0-60 in 6.8 seconds. Compare this with the 3.2 Brera...260 plus horses and 0-60 in 6.9 seconds. That's progress for you :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
Even the 2.4 is a disappointment with 200bhp/295ft lbs. It really needs more torque on the road to move it with any real conviction. I had mine remapped to about 250bhp/350ft lbs and it flies so there is a solution - it's just a shame you have to go to these lengths in the first place. I'd never buy the 3.2 Q4 as it makes no sense - slow, heavier than the standard 2 wheel drive, and drinks petrol!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,179 Posts
The 1.9 doesnt have anything like enough enough torque to move the 159.

The diesels are better.

The 159 body despite its 5 stars is actually lighter than the 156's

The weight loss will need to come from elsewhere - like the heavy steel suspension, the 7 airbags, the big seats, the extra air con, the thicker glass..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
All good points. It's a shame that the answer to we Alfisti's desire to put a smile on our faces is inevitably to find ways of increasing power output (and Wormus, you're a man after my own heart thank god for the likes of Autodelta and Novitec).

Although I'll probably take that route should I plump for a 159, its incredible that Alfa, of all people, have so widely missed the opportunity to provide driving pleasure through light-weight and hence good performance and nimbleness. If a car weighs close on 2 tonnes, taking after-market solutions to increase power simply makes it a close-on-2-tonne missile - fast in a straight line but reluctant to change course and with great potential for destruction.......:eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,154 Posts
Why don't they do a proper stripped-out GTA like the Peugeot 106 Rallye?

Just keep aircon and electric windows and do without all the rest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,179 Posts
badgers_nadgers said:
7 airbags – WTF?
Yep, mine has 7.

Passenger
Driver
2 x side
2 x curtain
Drivers knees

LHD models can have passenger knee bags too, but there seems to be a delay to them on RHD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,154 Posts
Sounds a bit gimmicky to me. An airbag in front of you, I can see the benefit of, but the others? You'd end up being squashed if they all went off at once!
 
A

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
badgers_nadgers said:
Why don't they do a proper stripped-out GTA like the Peugeot 106 Rallye?

Just keep aircon and electric windows and do without all the rest.
Agreed. I am more than happy with the spec of my Lusso and I see no need for the many toys on the 159 Lusso IMO which just add weight=more slow=more thirsty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,609 Posts
wormus said:
Even the 2.4 is a disappointment with 200bhp/295ft lbs. It really needs more torque on the road to move it with any real conviction. I had mine remapped to about 250bhp/350ft lbs and it flies so there is a solution - it's just a shame you have to go to these lengths in the first place. I'd never buy the 3.2 Q4 as it makes no sense - slow, heavier than the standard 2 wheel drive, and drinks petrol!
I'm running a 2.2JTS 159 at the moment for a couple of weeks while my 3.2 Brera is in the shop (reported elsewhere) and quite frankly I if being careful can get just under 29MPG out of the 159 - similarly I can crack over 24MPG on the same routes going carefully in the Brera - however at 90MPH the 159 is starting to complain (4KRPM) and the brera is just getting into stride. From stationary there is no comparison - and that's with over 200KG of excess weight thanks to the AWD and the skyview, worth 5Mpg to me anyday...

If you're worried about petrol consumption - buy a citycar or a VAG TDI or a prius otherwise just grin and enjoy it....

Simes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
821 Posts
cj romeo said:
The weight loss will need to come from elsewhere - like the heavy steel suspension, the 7 airbags, the big seats, the extra air con, the thicker glass..
... and the engine. Although the head block is all Alfa, the rest is GM and, as with all large American engines, its HEAVY! :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
Simes said:
If you're worried about petrol consumption - buy a citycar or a VAG TDI or a prius otherwise just grin and enjoy it....

Simes.
I agree, my argument was based on real world performance on the road. The 159 is the first Alfa I was prepared to buy with my own money - I've looked at them before but the build quality has always looked rubbish so I never bothered.

Alfa have created an interesting looking car that seems well screwed together, it's just too heavy and IMHO the petrols cannot move it effectively which is the reason I bought the diesel. it had nothing to do with fuel economy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
I took delivery of my new 159 Lusso JTDm Sportwagon yesterday (12/01/07). I decided to go for the 1.9 due to the low'ish emmision stats.
My 159 is a company car, Gordon Brown, as we all know taxes everything thats good. So unfortunately, the larger engine is out of the question when you are on the low end of the 40% tax bracket! :cry:
Having drove the Audi A4, Merc 220, BMW 3 series :)lol: ) and Saab 93, the AR159 was a breath of fresh air and not a shoe box on wheels. I also found the the 1.9 engine was just as good and if not better than these cars.

Upon delivery I was disappoined to see metal trim falling off from the dashbord (metal strip above glove box and fusebox side panel) and my light leather interior was marked with grease/oil. The dealer was surprised at my complaint, stating that the weather was not good and 'grime' is expected from mechanics overalls!!! :mad:

It will be interesting how my local dealer in Newcastle will react when I take it in to have these fixed under warranty. My lease company got a better deal from a dealer in Humberside. Thats why I hate being a company car driver, its difficult to build an immediate relationship with your dealer.

I think the car is excellent and up to now don't regret my decision to buy. It has to be the best looking car in its class at the moment, I just hope the dealer network doesn't let it down.

If anyone is thinking of buying one of these, as Nike would say..... JUST DO IT!!!!!!!:inlove:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
307 Posts
I agree, I have become very attached to my Alfa - it's a lovely thing to own and drive and I've never owned a diesel that warbles like a UR Audi Quattro! I was entitled to a Co car but didn't like the look of what was on offer so took the car allowance instead and bought the 2.4. Even with the extra weight it still seems to handle miles better than my (depressingly dull) old Passat. If anyone reading this is thinking of getting a 159 my advice is get one and enjoy it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,236 Posts
cj romeo said:
Yep, mine has 7.

Passenger
Driver
2 x side
2 x curtain
Drivers knees

LHD models can have passenger knee bags too, but there seems to be a delay to them on RHD
My 156 has all but the driver's knee ones from that list!

The weight must be largely in some of the fundamental areas of egineering like drive train and suspension - it's not going to be easy to shift it.

I read that GM tried to tell them they were going down the wrong track with the chassis and likely to end up too heavy, but they went off without GM's help and did it anyway. Now they realise they were wrong... Then again, when I had the 4WD passat I towed a lot and went on rough tracks quite a bit, and like the "over engineered" feeling - perhaps it suits some, and explains why its selling well in Europe? Some of the "roads" I've cycled on in Italy and Spain are full-on mountain tracks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
alfarmus said:
... and the engine. Although the head block is all Alfa, the rest is GM and, as with all large American engines, its HEAVY! :rolleyes:
I think there isnt much to save in engine weights, 3.2 is all aluminium same as 2.2. Maybe you could drop some kilos using magnesium
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,485 Posts
alfarmus said:
... and the engine. Although the head block is all Alfa, the rest is GM and, as with all large American engines, its HEAVY! :rolleyes:
Does anyone have any figures for this? Over on this thread people reckon the new 3.2 is lighter than the old.

I don't know either way...

As has been said, progress in safety and comfort is making most cars bigger and heavier so if we ignore the specific power output and compare like-for-like according to model, how does the performance of the 1.9 JTS 159 compare with the 1.6 TS 156?
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top