Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello
I have quite big problem regarding front wheel position
Long story short I refreshed front suspension components which include top and bottom wishbones track rod ends and drop links as well as I installed used but in great condition Bilstein B12 kit. In the meantime I bought hub centred spacers 12mm front and 15mm at the back.
Here is problem. After all the hard work I've done with the suspension I quickly realised that there is huge difference in wheel angles.
I can clearly see that one wheel ( driver side ) is tucked more inside the wheel arch that the passenger side. Of course camber is different and I can see it with my bare eyes that one wheel is sitting more les straight and other is more angled towards inside wheel arch

Besides that while changing suspension arms I noticed that on passenger side drop link position differ from driver side.
Droplinks has almost no clearance between fork and droplink, where on the other side ( driver side )I can easily stick two fingers between fork and droplink.

What happened here ? Is the subframe shifted more to the side or what ? I'm loosing my mind trying to figure out what went wrong

Please help.

Thanks

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,537 Posts
I think you first assumption is right. start by loosening the subframe and shifting it as far as it allows the other way. Also it's good practise to measure suspension heights under load, there should be very little different between the two sides. Measuring with the wheels on a ramp or floor, subframe bolt to floor, lower arm bolt to floor etc.
Hello
I have quite big problem regarding front wheel position
Long story short I refreshed front suspension components which include top and bottom wishbones track rod ends and drop links as well as I installed used but in great condition Bilstein B12 kit. In the meantime I bought hub centred spacers 12mm front and 15mm at the back.
Here is problem. After all the hard work I've done with the suspension I quickly realised that there is huge difference in wheel angles.
I can clearly see that one wheel ( driver side ) is tucked more inside the wheel arch that the passenger side. Of course camber is different and I can see it with my bare eyes that one wheel is sitting more les straight and other is more angled towards inside wheel arch

Besides that while changing suspension arms I noticed that on passenger side drop link position differ from driver side.
Droplinks has almost no clearance between fork and droplink, where on the other side ( driver side )I can easily stick two fingers between fork and droplink.

What happened here ? Is the subframe shifted more to the side or what ? I'm loosing my mind trying to figure out what went wrong

Please help.

Thanks

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I think you first assumption is right. start by loosening the subframe and shifting it as far as it allows the other way. Also it's good practise to measure suspension heights under load, there should be very little different between the two sides. Measuring with the wheels on a ramp or floor, subframe bolt to floor, lower arm bolt to floor etc.
The height is also different. I just measured the hight on fairly straight surface ( parking lot ) and drivers side there is 335mm from the wheel arch to the center of the wheel cap and passenger side is 345mm



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,537 Posts
Wheel arch measurements aren't always accurate, which is why measurements before geometry adjustment is typically done on a lower arm/subframe or suspension bolt centre.
Maybe face the car the other way and retest your height check to rule out the flooring.
Another thing with the drop links being out of position, is the ARB centralised on the subframe mounts? If so subframe adjustment should fix it assuming it's not extreme.
The height is also different. I just measured the hight on fairly straight surface ( parking lot ) and drivers side there is 335mm from the wheel arch to the center of the wheel cap and passenger side is 345mm



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Wheel arch measurements aren't always accurate, which is why measurements before geometry adjustment is typically done on a lower arm/subframe or suspension bolt centre.
Maybe face the car the other way and retest your height check to rule out the flooring.
Another thing with the drop links being out of position, is the ARB centralised on the subframe mounts? If so subframe adjustment should fix it assuming it's not extreme.
Thank you for your reply.
Ok I understand.
I honestly don't know but it went through my mind that ARB could be misaligned.
Wil have look at it



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Checked the ARB and to me it is in correct position. I do not see anything unusual apart from the droplinks
Thank you for your reply.
Ok I understand.
I honestly don't know but it went through my mind that ARB could be misaligned.
Wil have look at it



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,003 Posts
Have you counted the coils in the coil springs? One of them could have broken resulting in a difference?

And have you checked it for crash damage? i.e. history check, alignment check?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,003 Posts
Ah missed the bit about it being on B12's...

Have the dampers been assembled correctly? Top mounts etc? Measuring the ride height in itself won't help much as the arb will be pulling it level and there is an L/R weight differential.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Hi Chris
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that there is only one way that it can me assembled but I'm not 100% sure.
On the other hand I know for sure that the droplinks position was misaligned before I installed B12 kit
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,283 Posts
hiya mate been looking into this myself as a similar issue on mine but less pronounced. they sell a set of front subframe location washers but all i can see it though that would locate subframe dead centre it would limit adjustment some what.
their is a company selling adjustable bushes for the top arms in japan but very expensive
but you need to have it checked and the subframe loosened and adjusted more so if you know you had the issue before the b 12,s where done
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Yes I know for sure that the droplinks were misaligned way before I put b12s. That was the main reason why I replaced all the front suspension arms. I thought it will sort the misalignment issue. Also my front tyres are about 4k miles old and they are absolutely bald on the inside edge. I believe this shouldn't happen on stock suspension/dampers.
I will have the subframe checked and hopefully aligned the way it should be this Thursday

I'll let you know once I know anything
Thank you :)
hiya mate been looking into this myself as a similar issue on mine but less pronounced. they sell a set of front subframe location washers but all i can see it though that would locate subframe dead centre it would limit adjustment some what.
their is a company selling adjustable bushes for the top arms in japan but very expensive
but you need to have it checked and the subframe loosened and adjusted more so if you know you had the issue before the b 12,s where done
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,283 Posts
Yes I know for sure that the droplinks were misaligned way before I put b12s. That was the main reason why I replaced all the front suspension arms. I thought it will sort the misalignment issue. Also my front tyres are about 4k miles old and they are absolutely bald on the inside edge. I believe this shouldn't happen on stock suspension/dampers.
I will have the subframe checked and hopefully aligned the way it should be this Thursday

I'll let you know once I know anything
Thank you :)

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
inside edges could just be poor tracking as it takes a lot of camber to scrub a tyre
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,003 Posts
Hi Chris
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that there is only one way that it can me assembled but I'm not 100% sure.
On the other hand I know for sure that the droplinks position was misaligned before I installed B12 kit
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Don't know TBH - there could be something unique about the B12s and the way they go together but I've never seen a set in real life - I've got B8s on mine. I'm thinking it could be something daft like the strut was fitted 180deg out but that's just a guess on part.

Yes I know for sure that the droplinks were misaligned way before I put b12s. That was the main reason why I replaced all the front suspension arms. I thought it will sort the misalignment issue. Also my front tyres are about 4k miles old and they are absolutely bald on the inside edge. I believe this shouldn't happen on stock suspension/dampers.
I will have the subframe checked and hopefully aligned the way it should be this Thursday

I'll let you know once I know anything
Thank you :)

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
There can be lateral movement in the ARB that would produce the difference in clearance you've photographed, but it is usually accompanied by knocking noises.

Alignment check is certainly the best way forward for sure and if you don't get anywhere lots of pics would help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
yep arb is cca 5mm out of centre ( nothing unusual)
try swapping front shocks left to right and measure the height again.
Hi Alan thank you for the advice I'll ask my guy to swap the shocks over at the same time when he is going to play with the subframe position.

@chris155 hi Chris alignment was the first thing I've done after suspension change I don't know maybe the garage poorly done the alignment but I know that before the job my car was drifting left and after alignment my car is still drifting towards the left lol

Nothing unusual with B12s
Bilstein B12 kit is basically B8 dampers with eibach pro springs (red springs)

Cheers :)

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,030 Posts
subframe can only be moved 1-2mm and that will not solve anything, maybe measure the diagonals on the car first, from front left lower balljoint to rear right arm pivot point at the wheel and vice versa, if that is within less than 2mm than your car is straighter than many from the factory :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,003 Posts
Hi Alan thank you for the advice I'll ask my guy to swap the shocks over at the same time when he is going to play with the subframe position.

@chris155 hi Chris alignment was the first thing I've done after suspension change I don't know maybe the garage poorly done the alignment but I know that before the job my car was drifting left and after alignment my car is still drifting towards the left lol

Nothing unusual with B12s
Bilstein B12 kit is basically B8 dampers with eibach pro springs (red springs)

Cheers :)

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
HAHA! In that case I've got B12's on my GTA!:devious:

As Alan says, there's bugger all movement in the subframe. Think you need to take a load of pics with the wheels on and off so we can have a proper look at it.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top