[ransoman]

So, very much annoyed.

The GT V6 is now back on the road. Done 60 miles on the brand spanking new clutch (and quaiffe). On the way in this morning as I stopped at a junction the pedal suddenly became very "Rubbery". Pulled away and made it into work but now the pedal feels really bad, very rubbery and the car violently shakes as the clutch goes through biting point.

Fluid level is fine and both hydraulic cylinders replaced just before the clutch was replace.

Can anyone guess as to what is wrong and please don't tell me I have to remove the %&!£ing gearbox again!!

 

[Gertie]

More bleeding of the clutch line needed?

 

[ransoman]

Thanks Gertie.

I went out at lunchtime to have another look. The rubberyness is actually the clutch juddering, It only lasts around the first inch or so of pedal travel and goes away completely. If I hold the pedal an inch down the pedal just keeps juddering away under foot and the rate increases if I blip the throttle.

I can still get all gears and depressed the clutch over 30 times and the issue didn't get any worse.

I had a look under the bonnet and no signs of a fluid leak although the Slave cylinder feels loose in its bracket, almost as if the bracket is 1mm too wide. I doubt I would feel this through the pedal though.

Could it be that my friction plate has warped? If this is the case, why would it only show up after 60 miles and not immediately? I did have some trouble getting the gearbox back on initially but I would expect if I had done damage it would have been obvious the moment I turned the key.

 

[Heavend]

I hope you machined the flywheel....and put thread lock on the bolts that hold the flywheel and clutch assembly... and replaced the clutch release bearing. To be honest I'm suspecting an assembly error.

 

[ransoman]

I hope you machined the flywheel....and put thread lock on the bolts that hold the flywheel and clutch assembly... and replaced the clutch release bearing. To be honest I'm suspecting an assembly error.

None of this is necessary. The flywheel doesn't need machined unless it is damaged, no one machines a flywheel when replacing a clutch unless they have too.

The bolts that came off where not threadlocked so they went back in also without threadlock and where torqued to the correct spec. And the release bearing was replaced as that was what had failed before. this is not my first clutch job so I know what I am doing.

The release bearing popped out on the way home last night. Close enough that I could limp home in 1st.

1 of 2 possibilities here, Either I have one of the faulty valeo clutches (most likely) or I didn't engage the bearing with the spring plate well enough. I will be able to tell for sure at the weekend when I pop the battery out.

 

[115686]

If the release bearing is "faulty" per the valeo thread, then the result is surely total failure, not juddering? Juddering sounds odd.

 

[ransoman]

If the release bearing is "faulty" per the valeo thread, then the result is surely total failure, not juddering? Juddering sounds odd.

Untill I get the plate off, I am going along the theory of the reataining ring in the spring plate breaks off and stays on the release bearing. That would be the most likely case as any other failure you could just pop the bearing back on and I am told that in this case you cannot.

The juddering would/could be the bearing coming partly adrift. Either that or Ned is right and I didn't engage it properly. Will try again with a hammer.

 

[115686]

Ah, OK the spring plate coming apart is the "valeo failure mode". I suppose it might judder when wonky.

Give it a walloping, nothing to lose.

 

[Yorkshirekeith]

The clutch release bearing and retaining ring in the clutch plate should click into engagement very easily indeed, certainly without the need for any kind of a "wallop": try engaging the two off the car to see just how easy it is. the spring clip ring and the plastic guide ring have to be positioned correctly and in the correct order for it to work, however if it does, a finger is all it takes to push the two together. You can quite easily separate the two again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfxpLFazVwc
If you want to be absolutely sure it's engaged properly it is possible on the V6 to engage it first and then engage the clutch arm into the ears -which you've positioned at 12 and 6 oclock obviously- of the release bearing as you move the gearbox onto the engine. there is a small rectangular window in the top of the bellhousing that lets you see what you are doing ( in my case with a mini maglite in my mouth to see what was happening ) till the very last few centimeters, and once the clutch arm is engaged you can use it to actually help draw the box on the very last centimeter or so.
It's still easier on balance to do it the other way as long as your clutch alignment is spot on.

 

[115686]

I remember having to give mine a firm thump to get it to engage.

 

[Yorkshirekeith]

I remember having to give mine a firm thump to get it to engage.

Your opinion and experience is every bit as valuable as mine obviously and partly depends on your definition of firm and thump I guess, I'm talking about the way the clutch bearing and the retaining ring on the friction plate go together.
Things like clutch alignment accuracy, any gearbox movement/play on the studs caused by missing locating dowels and gunked up lower release arm bearings will affect the ease with which the two will push home in the car. But if those are good it's my humble opinion and experience that it should go in "easily" ie you should be able to do it by twisting the clutch arm yourself without the need for hammers, extension tubes, pipe wrenches etc as sometimes mentioned on here.

 

[ransoman]

Your opinion and experience is every bit as valuable as mine obviously and partly depends on your definition of firm and thump I guess, I'm talking about the way the clutch bearing and the retaining ring on the friction plate go together.
Things like clutch alignment accuracy, any gearbox movement/play on the studs caused by missing locating dowels and gunked up lower release arm bearings will affect the ease with which the two will push home in the car. But if those are good it's my humble opinion and experience that it should go in "easily" ie you should be able to do it by twisting the clutch arm yourself without the need for hammers, extension tubes, pipe wrenches etc as sometimes mentioned on here.

Mine engaged easily too. all locating dowels present and I spent nearly 2 hours making sure the clutch alignment was perfect so i can say it certainly isn't an alignment issue.

I re-attached the bearing on Sunday (and gave it a whack with a pin hammer for luck)and went for a drive. After about 7 miles the release bearing was juddering again and ready to pop off. Job has to be done again, It sucks but no point in me complaining about it, as long as I am refunded for the dodgy part.

 

[Mystic]

Sounds a bit like either the pressure plate is not torqued up fully so it's oscillating and letting the release bearing pop out, or if it's still got a dual mass flywheel, it's worn and oscillating giving the same effect. If either, you may be able to detect a rattle, when hot, from the bell housing, with the clutch engaged

If it's the spring/clip on the release bearing I can see how it would cause the judder. It can't be half located really. It's either behind the pressure plate fingers or it's not. The judder can only be axial movement in pressure plate or flywheel, or radial movement in fiction plate hub. If the latter, the release bearing wouldn't come out. Be interested to know when you take it apart again please!

I fitted a Borg and beck clutch and it lasted about 1100 miles before the rivets that hold the friction plate to the outer material ring sheared off. The valeo I put on after has been fine for 10k now.

 

[Cuore_Sportivo_155]

There's a vibrational dampener which sits in the hydraulic line between master and slave. Did you check that?

Are the release bearing and pressureplate from the same manufacturer?

 

[Yorkshirekeith]

Did you get this fixed in the end? what was the cause?

 

[Tobenn]

I had the clutch replaced on my 04 156 at about 140,000 miles. Within 20k it failed just as if the plates had worn. Same garage replaced it and a waaranty claim was rejected. Later the garage said it was faulty diaphragm springs on a Vzleo unit, due to other issues the charge was waived and the new clutch is fine having now done about 25k. Not sure what happened at Valeo, but the whole thing stinks.