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or the bravo on which its based:lol:
 

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Better a Chrysler based on an Alfa than an Alfa based on a Chrysler. :)
thats true:lol: it would be the arna all over again the other way round:lol:
 

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Giulietta:thumbs:
 
G

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For a compact SUV? Doubt the Fiat platform
would have much in the way of off-road ability
if used in a Wrangler replacement.
 

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For a compact SUV? Doubt the Fiat platform
would have much in the way of off-road ability
if used in a Wrangler replacement.
It would have to be a small SUV. The Jeep Wrangler type of 4x4 is used pretty hard and its chassis needs to be very strong - those big engines have a lot of torque
 

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Sure because it would be so much better if the Chrysler sitting in my dad's driveway had an alternator that froze in the winter, locks that froze in the winter, an emergency brake that froze in the winter, etc. You get the drift. ;)

Again, as with every other car manufacturer, Chrysler has put out some good products and some bad products. (Gee it seems to me we've had this same discussion before, but with different companies.) Any smart company wil take the best aspects of all of its divisions and combine them. Just think, maybe Alfa will actually end up with some RWD products that everybody on this forum seems want (although judging by how much difficulty this winter has presented to people who drive FWD cars, I can't imagine how AOers would make out with RWD. :rolleyes: :lol:)

We can only hope that both Chrysler and Alfa (and Fiat) benefit from the recent deal. If not Alfa enthusiasts lose, Mopar enthusiasts lose, and the Canadian and American taxpayers take a bit hit, and I don't want to see any of that happen.
--Toronto
 

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We had the conversation....:rolleyes:

Better Alfas FWD than Chryslers RWD.:)
 

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We had the conversation....:rolleyes:
Yes we have. And if you want I'll have it about Ford too. (There are Fords in my family as well.) Heck if you want to have it about Hyundai or Kia, I'd probably be willing to do that too.

Actually recently I've had a conversation with a very good, solidly reputable mechanic who has decades of experience. He also puts on a lot of miles per year and is a demanding driver. And he's recently purchased a Kia, and you should hear him rave about it. He's happy with the mechanical aspects, and it fits his needs, wants and lifestyle perfectly. In other words, it's a good car. It's an especially good car for him, which in the real world is what counts. As to whether some "expert" enthusiast :rolleyes: on the Internet would even stoop to deeming his vehicle a car doesn't mean squat.

clubber said:
Better Alfas FWD than Chryslers RWD.:)
In your opinion.

All in all, (and this is only my opinion, and we both know how much one person's opinions matter) it must be pretty sad to live in a world that is so narrow, focused and black and white. Personally I couldn't do it, but if it works for you, then go for it.

BTW if you happen to think I'm picking on you personally, I'm not. I'm just reacting to years (take a look at my join date) of listening to the same old tired cliches trotted out time after time. I can ignore them for so long, but I can only take in so much bunk before it all overflows and I'm forced to react. You just happen to be spewing this stuff as I'm near my tipping point.

Oh, and if I were ever in the market for an off-road 4x4 I'd never, ever go near a Jeep based on an Alfa car platform. No way, no how. That would just be asking for trouble, and I really can't imagine too many of the Jeep off-road enthusiasts jumping on an Alfa-platform bandwagon. I'm sorry, but Alfa brings no recent (post-Matta ;) ) expertise to the table in rugged, off-road 4x4s, and I think Sergio is just asking for trouble, and a whopping loss of sales, if that is the direction he is taking Jeep. Using Alfa for a small car, sport coupe touring platform would be an entirely different story, but Alfaizing Jeep is likely a terrible mistake.
--Toronto
 

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not that narrow minded, i just know chryslers rwd is poor, as are most chryslers, except the viper:D cheap plastics etc, they could do so much more if they just put the effort in;)

and fiat group makes one of the best off roaders about, so they could put that expertise in play
 
G

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I really don't it when people say they wouldn't enjoy a nice
big road trip over in North America with a (stupidly for Europe)
large or fast US built car. :confused:


For me it's all about context.

A lot of modern American cars are a giggle over in the US.
But I just couldn't imagine driving one in France. (There are a few though....)


There is a little pop at Fiat at the end of this Daily Show interview
from a couple of nights ago...
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-january-12-2010/paul-ingrassia
 

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Yes we have. And if you want I'll have it about Ford too. (There are Fords in my family as well.) Heck if you want to have it about Hyundai or Kia, I'd probably be willing to do that too.

Actually recently I've had a conversation with a very good, solidly reputable mechanic who has decades of experience. He also puts on a lot of miles per year and is a demanding driver. And he's recently purchased a Kia, and you should hear him rave about it. He's happy with the mechanical aspects, and it fits his needs, wants and lifestyle perfectly. In other words, it's a good car. It's an especially good car for him, which in the real world is what counts. As to whether some "expert" enthusiast :rolleyes: on the Internet would even stoop to deeming his vehicle a car doesn't mean squat.



In your opinion.

All in all, (and this is only my opinion, and we both know how much one person's opinions matter) it must be pretty sad to live in a world that is so narrow, focused and black and white. Personally I couldn't do it, but if it works for you, then go for it.

BTW if you happen to think I'm picking on you personally, I'm not. I'm just reacting to years (take a look at my join date) of listening to the same old tired cliches trotted out time after time. I can ignore them for so long, but I can only take in so much bunk before it all overflows and I'm forced to react. You just happen to be spewing this stuff as I'm near my tipping point.

Oh, and if I were ever in the market for an off-road 4x4 I'd never, ever go near a Jeep based on an Alfa car platform. No way, no how. That would just be asking for trouble, and I really can't imagine too many of the Jeep off-road enthusiasts jumping on an Alfa-platform bandwagon. I'm sorry, but Alfa brings no recent (post-Matta ;) ) expertise to the table in rugged, off-road 4x4s, and I think Sergio is just asking for trouble, and a whopping loss of sales, if that is the direction he is taking Jeep. Using Alfa for a small car, sport coupe touring platform would be an entirely different story, but Alfaizing Jeep is likely a terrible mistake.
--Toronto
I am not here to take on anyone, so I wont go into picking me on personally. To keep it on the subject:

I am NOT saying that:

1. Kia/Hyundai, etc. arent quality-built best-buy cars. Sure they are, I agree.
2. GM, Ford and Chrysler arent good for USA/Canada markets. Sure they are, that the market demand over there, they are pretty much on the course.
3. I would actually have a go in a lumpy V8 across USA.

My point is:

Whenever you buy a car, you have your priorities. Every car is a compromise, good at something, bad at something else. You cant have all. You are trying to convince me something that are already know (although "narrow minded"):

1. Who wants to buy a best-value-for-money car, will go on Koreans or Japanese. Will lack excitment, design but will be happy with its quality
2. Who lives in USA, probably will go for domestic built large comfortable saloons (which I dont find bad, just not the taste of European drivers). Will lack in handling and quality interiors, but what the heck - on those highways, that doesnt seem to be important.
3. Who wants a expensive, good performance, rock-solid car will go for Germans. The bad-side is the image of the people driving those, as being generally very arogant and overwelmed with themselves.
4. etc.

You cant find a car that combines all of these.

My priorities in buying a car were:

1. Distinctive (compared to Focuses, Astras, Golfs.....)
2. Good design
3. Handling (although FWD, I dont find much car in that class that are better, maybe Focus)
4. Not built as an iPod or washing machine, but with a bit of heritage in it, no matter how that small bit is
5. Image and taste - I find the people who drive Alfas (you can put SAAB and Jaguars in this too) to have some taste in choosing cars
6. Exclusivity (this is a bit tricky, I am not talking about Ferraris, but I want to say that I wont lose my 147 on the parking lot, as some Golf and Focus can be lost easily - they are all over the place)

I will sure have problems with quality, depreciation, consumtion, services, but that is what Alfa lacks in and I am perfectly aware of it. Its just that I put those 1-6 above these bad-side. That is my compromise. And respect is as such. I dont go on Chrysler/GM/Ford forums convincing them how Alfa is good and theirs are rubbish. But you seem to constatly trying to convince european drivers (yet Alfa Romeo, who are very passionate about their cars) that USA cars are good. If you are happy with American cars, OK, but keep it among the people you can share you thrill with.

The taste of European drivers is way different that those in USA. And it has been that way for as long as car industry goes back. It seems that you are fighting a Don-Quijote battle trying to persuade picky european drivers to like USA market cars. They probably never will - I cant find a single USA car that has outnumbered european cars in Europe. And Ford/GM/Chrysler started losing their battle with Far Eastern cars years ago.

Alfa drivers are not "narrow minded" - they are simply more attached to their cars and they have specific taste in choosing one. It doesnt have to be an Alfa, as long as it has all the things that we like. I would have no problem in owning for instance:

- Jaguars: XJ, XK, S-Type
- Maseratis of all kinds, older or younger
- Lancias
- BMW Z3 Coupe (yeah its German, but very rare and I find it gorgeus, probably not everyones taste)
- I even have a soft spot for E32 BMW, because they are now becoming rare and are not driven by those arogant tasteless people but by those who appreciate its marvelous engineering
- Porsche 911 in any generation

So, I dont want a reliable, best-buy MPG friedly car, if its damn BORING. I want something else that makes me smile every time I sit in it and that makes my head turn every time I leave it parked. If it makes me narrow-minded, so be it.

Clubber
 

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I am not here to take on anyone, so I wont go into picking me on personally. To keep it on the subject:

I am NOT saying that:

1. Kia/Hyundai, etc. arent quality-built best-buy cars. Sure they are, I agree.
2. GM, Ford and Chrysler arent good for USA/Canada markets. Sure they are, that the market demand over there, they are pretty much on the course.
3. I would actually have a go in a lumpy V8 across USA.

My point is:

Whenever you buy a car, you have your priorities. Every car is a compromise, good at something, bad at something else. You cant have all. You are trying to convince me something that are already know (although "narrow minded"):

1. Who wants to buy a best-value-for-money car, will go on Koreans or Japanese. Will lack excitment, design but will be happy with its quality
2. Who lives in USA, probably will go for domestic built large comfortable saloons (which I dont find bad, just not the taste of European drivers). Will lack in handling and quality interiors, but what the heck - on those highways, that doesnt seem to be important.
3. Who wants a expensive, good performance, rock-solid car will go for Germans. The bad-side is the image of the people driving those, as being generally very arogant and overwelmed with themselves.
4. etc.

You cant find a car that combines all of these.

My priorities in buying a car were:

1. Distinctive (compared to Focuses, Astras, Golfs.....)
2. Good design
3. Handling (although FWD, I dont find much car in that class that are better, maybe Focus)
4. Not built as an iPod or washing machine, but with a bit of heritage in it, no matter how that small bit is
5. Image and taste - I find the people who drive Alfas (you can put SAAB and Jaguars in this too) to have some taste in choosing cars
6. Exclusivity (this is a bit tricky, I am not talking about Ferraris, but I want to say that I wont lose my 147 on the parking lot, as some Golf and Focus can be lost easily - they are all over the place)

I will sure have problems with quality, depreciation, consumtion, services, but that is what Alfa lacks in and I am perfectly aware of it. Its just that I put those 1-6 above these bad-side. That is my compromise. And respect is as such. I dont go on Chrysler/GM/Ford forums convincing them how Alfa is good and theirs are rubbish. But you seem to constatly trying to convince european drivers (yet Alfa Romeo, who are very passionate about their cars) that USA cars are good. If you are happy with American cars, OK, but keep it among the people you can share you thrill with.

The taste of European drivers is way different that those in USA. And it has been that way for as long as car industry goes back. It seems that you are fighting a Don-Quijote battle trying to persuade picky european drivers to like USA market cars. They probably never will - I cant find a single USA car that has outnumbered european cars in Europe. And Ford/GM/Chrysler started losing their battle with Far Eastern cars years ago.

Alfa drivers are not "narrow minded" - they are simply more attached to their cars and they have specific taste in choosing one. It doesnt have to be an Alfa, as long as it has all the things that we like. I would have no problem in owning for instance:

- Jaguars: XJ, XK, S-Type
- Maseratis of all kinds, older or younger
- Lancias
- BMW Z3 Coupe (yeah its German, but very rare and I find it gorgeus, probably not everyones taste)
- I even have a soft spot for E32 BMW, because they are now becoming rare and are not driven by those arogant tasteless people but by those who appreciate its marvelous engineering
- Porsche 911 in any generation

So, I dont want a reliable, best-buy MPG friedly car, if its damn BORING. I want something else that makes me smile every time I sit in it and that makes my head turn every time I leave it parked. If it makes me narrow-minded, so be it.

Clubber
exactly clubber, very well put:thumbs:
 
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