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naughty VW, but probably not alone in this I guess.

Is there an equivalent test in Europe or is it just in the States they cheated?

If you buy VWs as fleet cars part based on these results, you'd be a bit miffed.

Wonder what Sergio M thinks of this? Hmm.
 

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just thinking about this...if they cheated, then the 'pass' results are now invalid, so does that mean VW diesels in the states don't pass/qualify type approval? basically, you're driving a car that no longer has type approval?

and, if VW does fix all the cars (big recall), what will that cost per car, and will performance suffer to make the car pass the tests?

and what cost to VW's tarnished brand image as a maker of clean diesels? Not having a pop at VW here, just thinking about the implications over all.

I'm off to make a bacon butty now, for what it's worth :)
 

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I think it's worse G.

For example in California every car must pass a smog test
every 2 years. Failure means your car can't go on the road.

Theoretically people have bought cars that shouldn't be
legally on the road.

Class action lawsuit around the corner, methinks.


To be fair I doubt they've sold that many DERVs in the US. ;)
 

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i think then they may well be in the poop big time in the States, Nev.

It'll be interesting to hear VW's response. I expect to laugh :)
 

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At this point there seems to be a lot of angry VW owners swearing "they lied to me, I bought the TDi because it was 'clean.' I'm never buying a VW again." They also seem very, very, very concerned about what the cars will be worth on the resale market.

That said, I doubt anything will really change for the buying public. VW will issue a software update to "fix" the problem. Nobody from VW corporate is going to jail, and if they have to pay a fine it's just the cost of doing business. Plus, by the time all the current cranky owners have to buy new cars, this will all be forgotten.

Apparently I have a very high and positive view of my fellow humans. ;)
 

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Hi TS!


You're probably right.

But Fiat "updated" their 2015 models to comply with EU emissions
and the smaller engines are now more-or-less gutless wonders.

If VW have to do the same in the US then they will still have
a bunch of unhappy campers as customers.
 

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I don think VW have the best reputation the U.S. anyway, this will only make things worse, not only for VW but likely for other non U.S manufactures. They will be seen, and advertised in the u.s as unreliable and untrustworthy... The Americans should all just buy American, something they can trust.

Don't forget Audi had to pay, was it $900m because of the TFSi engine eating itself
 

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This was just on the news with talk of potential legal action by other manaufactuers who haven't allegedly cheated who may have lost sales.
 

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Das auto.

Das test.

Das cheats!
 

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I don think VW have the best reputation the U.S. anyway, this will only make things worse, not only for VW but likely for other non U.S manufactures. They will be seen, and advertised in the u.s as unreliable and untrustworthy... The Americans should all just buy American, something they can trust.
But Americans don't buy American.

Every time a Canadian or an American asks the "what car should I buy question" on one of the US-based, international forums I participate in, the answer is always Honda (CRV!, CRV!, CRV!, etc. plus a scattering of Civics), Toyota (Prius, Prius, Prius, Corolla), Subaru (four-wheel drive because it snows half-an-inch where they live), with a few Kias and Mitsubishis thrown in. For some very specific questions and circumstances, I do see VWs (Touaregs and TDis) and Audis recommended. A few BMWs get tossed into the mix (never Mercedes). I can't ever recall anybody saying buy a GM, Ford or Chrysler automobile. Sometimes a few brave souls will suggest an American truck, but even then, a surprisingly large number of answers suggest Toyotas. Sport ute questions also tend to get answered with Japanese brands. You hear similar comments in person whenever the topic of cars comes up. I could bore you to tears with anecdotes about how many discussions I've had with people who have told me they'd never buy American, and that I was stupid for driving one for years. (I'm not driving one now, and it really pains me as I believe in supporting local industry, but stupid US car makes don't make FWD coupes with manual transmissions.)

As for VW's reputation, there is still a lot of that German engineering marketing that permeates the atmosphere. More people (on average) will say positive things than negative about VW, and you will definitely here more positive things about VWs compared with GMs, Fords or Chryslers.

Of course US car makers are still surviving, but a lot more of their sales are dependent upon truck buyers (if you go to a local dealer, I can guarantee you they will have dozens and dozens of trucks in stock in every configuration but no more than one unit of each car model, and very likely not the spec you are looking for) and a lot of their market share has vanished never to be recovered.
 

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Dont forget, wherever in the world, VW is a very strong and aggressive marketing machine, certainly in Europe the sheep type buying public, the blind lemmings who believe any VW/Audi is perfect will still hand over their cash to buy them despite the VAG lies.
 

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Sounds serious... the US have removed the certificate of conformity of all 2.0 VW diesels...

FRANKFURT -- Volkswagen ordered an external investigation after U.S. regulators found software the carmaker designed for diesel cars gave false emissions data, CEO Martin Winterkorn said Sunday, adding he was "deeply sorry" for the violation of U.S. clean-air rules.

"I personally am deeply sorry that we have broken the trust of our customers and the public," Winterkorn said in a statement. "Volkswagen has ordered an external investigation of this matter. We will do everything necessary in order to reverse the damage this has caused."

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) said Friday the software deceived regulators measuring toxic emissions, adding Volkswagen could face fines of up to $18 billion as a result.

"We do not and will not tolerate violations of any kind of our internal rules or of the law," Winterkorn said, adding the company was fully cooperating with U.S. government agencies. He gave no details on who would carry out the external investigation.

"This is not your usual recall issue, an error in calibration or even a serious safety flaw," Bernstein analysts wrote in a note on Sunday. "There is no way to put an optimistic spin on this - this is really serious."

Cynthia Giles, an enforcement officer at the EPA, said the cars in question "contained software that turns off emissions controls when driving normally and turns them on when the car is undergoing an emissions test."

The feature, which the EPA called a "defeat device," masks the true emissions only during testing and therefore when the cars are on the road they emit as much as 40 times the level of pollutants allowed under clean air rules meant to ensure public health is protected, EPA officials say.

VW also ordered U.S. dealers not to sell any remaining 2015 models with 2.0-liter diesel engines, The Detroit News reported.

Christopher Grundler, director of the EPA’s Office of Transportation of Air Quality, told the News in an interview that the government has also refused to grant VW a “certificate of conformity” to sell 2016 model diesel cars with 2.0-liter diesel engines.

VW is barred from selling 2016 model vehicles with the 2.0 liter diesel engine until “they get answers to the questions of how these vehicles are being operated. Volkswagen couldn’t explain why we’re getting these excess emissions,” Grundler told the paper.

VW has also removed many videos and content from YouTube and other social media channels touting its clean diesel efforts, the News said.

Because diesel models can account for 20 to 25 percent of the VW brand's U.S. sales each month, the ban is expected to put a major dent in the company's volume and slow its turnaround efforts in coming months.

The company said it has also heard from the Justice Department, which the EPA said could pursue criminal prosecution.

Volkswagen peer Daimler, meanwhile, signaled it may not be subject to the same violation. "I have a rough idea of what is happening and that it does not apply to us," Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche said on Sunday at an event in Hamburg.
 

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Here is a bit more, it seems VW tried to explain away the differences but had to admit it in the end.... Mon am VW share price is down 13%


WASHINGTON -- In the end, federal environmental regulators gave Volkswagen an ultimatum: Offer a convincing explanation for why many of its diesel vehicles were spewing more toxic emissions than they did in the test lab or face the loss of EPA certification for all its 2016 diesel models.

At that point, on Sept. 3, Volkswagen chose to explain.

And the explanation turned out to be a huge embarrassment for a company whose U.S. identity is closely tied to the promise of peppy "clean diesels": Volkswagen, the EPA said, used special software to manipulate its emissions controls during U.S. emissions tests, effectively doctoring its emissions results on seven model years' worth of diesel vehicles going back to 2009, in violation of the Clean Air Act.

Last week, the EPA announced that 482,000 Volkswagen and Audi diesel vehicles were fitted with what the agency called a "defeat device" -- software that would detect when a car is undergoing EPA emissions testing and turn on the vehicle's full emissions controls. The software then switched off the full emissions controls during real-world driving, the EPA said.

With the controls off, the cars emitted nitrous oxide at levels 10 to 40 times greater than what was permitted by law, according to the EPA.

Compared with other run-ins between the EPA and automakers, VW's alleged violation stands out in its brazenness. Ford and Hyundai-Kia both had to reduce the fuel economy ratings on several vehicles in recent years under EPA pressure, but those revisions were tied, in Hyundai-Kia's case, to errors in calibrating mpg tests, and in Ford's to exploiting loopholes in the law.

Volkswagen, on the other hand, admitted to installing software code designed to manipulate the results of EPA tests, regulators say.

"These violations are very serious, not only because illegal defeat devices result in excess emissions many times the allowable standard, but also because VW was concealing the facts from EPA, the State of California and consumers," Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for the EPA's Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance, said in a conference call. "We expected better from VW."

"We expected better from VW."
Cynthia Giles
EPA



'VW on notice'


Janet McCabe, acting assistant administrator for the EPA's Office of Air and Radiation, said the office will "hold VW responsible" for recalling the affected vehicles to reduce the excess emissions but said no recall order was issued as part of the announcement Friday, Sept. 18. In a statement, VW said it would develop a remedy with the EPA and the California Air Resources Board.

For now, no fines have been ordered, as the investigation is continuing, but the EPA decided to announce the alleged violations to inform the public and "to put VW on notice of our continuing investigation," Giles said. The investigation is being conducted in cooperation with CARB.

Under federal law, the EPA can levy a maximum fine of $37,500 per vehicle, EPA officials said on the conference call Friday, meaning VW and Audi face potential fines that could top $18 billion.

Volkswagen said it's cooperating with the investigation.

"This is a notice of non-compliance that needs to be addressed," the statement said.

For more than a year, federal and California regulators had been investigating independent test results indicating older VW diesel vehicles were far dirtier in the real world than official emissions test results indicated. The independent analysis came from researchers at West Virginia University, working with the International Council on Clean Transportation, a nongovernmental organization.

VW initially responded that the disparities were caused by "various technical issues and unexpected in-use conditions," the EPA said.

But as the regulators pressed their inquiry, the EPA said, "none of the potential technical issues suggested by VW explained" the disparities.


Sales at stake


According to the EPA, the agency and CARB this month demanded an explanation from VW and were prepared to withhold certification that VW's 2016 diesel vehicles complied with U.S. emissions standards.

The EPA has since withheld those certifications, which effectively blocks their sale.

VW has now ordered U.S. dealers not to sell any remaining 2015 models with 2.0-liter diesel engines. And the automaker ordered an internal investigation. Also today, CEO Martin Winterkorn issued a statement apologizing for the violation.

"I personally am deeply sorry that we have broken the trust of our customers and the public," Winterkorn said in the statement. "Volkswagen has ordered an external investigation of this matter. We will do everything necessary in order to reverse the damage this has caused."

The withholding of the certification could be a devastating blow for VW, which relies on diesels for roughly a fifth of its U.S. sales and has made its clean diesel technology a cornerstone of its brand identity, setting it apart from mainstream competitors.

"Only then (when confronted by regulators) did VW admit it had designed and installed a defeat device in these vehicles in the form of a sophisticated software algorithm that detected when a vehicle was undergoing emissions testing," the EPA said in its notice on Friday.

"The dogged detective work in the lab provided the data and resulted in an admission that VW did indeed have a defeat device in its software for diesel cars," Richard Corey, executive officer of CARB, said on the conference call.
 

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I find it interesting that all the press is almost exclusively VW. Not VAG. Audi is barely mentioned
 
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