I have very limited mechanical knowledge but I think engine break is something (modern) engines can cope with perfectly well.

 

It's been said on here before and I totally agree...I'd rather replace worn out brake pads and disks than worn out gearboxes due to braking.

I think engine braking is now an old unnecesary technique, due to the improved capability of newer brakes, I certainly wasn't taught to rputinely engine brake when I learnt to drive 7 years ago.

Saying that, I used to drive a 145 Boxer and the brakes were pretty bad, so it might be worth carrying on! Your gearbox and clutch will be put under higher than normal load and the gearbox on the Boxer engined cars is not a strong point!

HTH.

 

First thing I got taught on my track day at Thruxton was that the brakes are for braking and not the engine and gear box.

Admittedly, I do change down to second coming to a junction, but I wouldn't do it so that the revs go unnecessarily high.

 

So long as you don't over-rev the engine it shouldn't do too much damage

 

Engine braking only necessary when goin downhill.
Even then, the purpose is to have better control of the vehicle.
Otherwise, use the brakes. Unless you are practising heel and toe

 

Use the brakes that's what they're there for !!

 

The only "engine braking" I use
is when coming down a mountain pass
and leaving it in 3rd or 4th to keep the
speed down instead of staying on the brakes.
(esp when there is slow moving traffic in front)

Don't really change down to reduce speed.
That's what the brakes are for!

 

Use the brakes.......

 

what are brakes

 

You should allways use them both togther. My driving instructor was a retired police puresuit driver. And he taught me that if you are all ready in the right gear when you have finished braking then you can pull away again quickly with out having to guess what the right gear may be and the jumping when engaging the clutch or having to slip it and wearing it out.
All moto sport drivers do this so must be right?

 

You should allways use them both togther. My driving instructor was a retired police puresuit driver. And he taught me that if you are all ready in the right gear when you have finished braking then you can pull away again quickly with out having to guess what the right gear may be and the jumping when engaging the clutch or having to slip it and wearing it out.
All moto sport drivers do this so must be right?

I did an advance thing over three weeks and was taught this. Also that brakes are for stopping and not to use the engine. It is ok to go down a gear or two when decending hills.

 

I did an advance thing over three weeks and was taught this. Also that brakes are for stopping and not to use the engine. It is ok to go down a gear or two when decending hills.

I totally agree. As has been said, engine braking is good for downhill stretches, but not for stopping normally at a junction.

It puts increased and unnecessary wear on the clutch and gearbox and we all know that brake pads are cheaper than gearboxes and clutches!

 

Brakes brake, engines and gearboxes break.

 

I sometimes using engine breaking, jsut cus I like the noise

 

I agree with some disagree with others.

I think you should always use a degree of engine breaking, just enough to keep torque to the drive wheels otherwise your coasting to a stop with just your brakes applied and not fully in control of the car. Serious engine braking should only be applied on steep hills to ease the work your brakes have to do.

When I'm a passenger in other people's car's and they coast to a stop using just the brakes and clutch fully depressed it always makes me cringe for some reason. I can feel it in the physics and dynamics of the car that its just coasting along and not fully in control.

If when you brake you don't have the clutch fully depressed then you are also engine breaking even if it doesn't feel like it and revs aren't high.

Track based driving techniques should really have no place on the road. If your brakes fade on the road your more likely to get hurt or hurt someone else in the process than on the track where your in a controlled environment. Coasting into corners on a track with no torque to the drive wheels is foolhardy in my opinion.

 

I was told on my emegency stop when I did my driving test to press the brake hard and depress the clutch at the last minute as it stops the wheels locking. However we all know that doing this means the engine is pushing the car against the brakes and increasing stopping distances. Modern cars have ABS to stop the wheels locking anyway.

As for the police I cannot take their school of driving seriously as they still use that stupid push pull steering wheel technique. If it was any good it would be when driving race cars.

 

Hello children everywhere
The problem here is that most of you do not equalise the engine speed to the transmission speed when changing down, thus slipping the clutch and using the clutch for slowing the car, instead of the engine.
If your first car had been a 1928 Austin 7 you would understand this.
So use the engine as brake, not the clutch.
Some years ago I did 110,000 miles in a Thema turbo after a gearbox and clutch rebuild, which had been wrecked by the first owner in 50,000.

 

For normal road driving leaving a car in a slightly lower gear for downhill stuff is common sense and doesn't do any harm.

I am guessing that the original poster might have been more interested in whether intentionally doing a non rev matched gearshift under heavy braking to cause extra drag is a good idea or not.

Not

Using engine braking as an aid for enthusiastic braking is putting a lot more stress on the car.
That funny sound you hear is a little bit being ground off your synchros, you are putting a lot of extra stress on the gearbox and clutch.

Its the first thing you are taught NOT do to on a racing course.
BTW Race drivers generally don't do it - they do heel and toe rev matched downshifts. Their brakes have sufficient power for the purpose at hand and they regard engine braking as a last resort when the brakes have become very iffy.

If trying it on the road, sure it feels cool and seductive but unless your brakes have started fading, you would get the same effect by pressing the brakes harder.

One thing to watch out is that under very heavy braking from 4th or 5th gear down to 2nd you really do want to match the revs carefully, because if you misjudge things while attempting to use engine braking you can over-rev the car.
The rev limiter doesn't play a part for downshifts and you can bend valves instantly if you screw up.

My personal suggestion is that if you think you need to use engine braking because your cars brakes feel ludicrously weak, then just upgrade the brake pads, plus fluid if neccessary.

 

True you defintely have to be in the right gear to pull away, but that isn't really affected by engine braking, you still change gear its just a matter of whether you match the revs or intentionally mismatch them during the braking period.

And he taught me that if you are all ready in the right gear when you have finished braking then you can pull away again quickly with out having to guess what the right gear may be and the jumping when engaging the clutch or having to slip it and wearing it out.

My understanding is that dipping the clutch at the last minute is still the most efficient way, you are actually getting more benefical drag from the engine - its not really acceloerating you.

RE your instructors comment dipping the clutch stopping the wheels locking, thats interesting and I'm sure true. I think ABS just means that you could leave dipping the clutch to the very last second.

I was told on my emegency stop when I did my driving test to press the brake hard and depress the clutch at the last minute as it stops the wheels locking. However we all know that doing this means the engine is pushing the car against the brakes and increasing stopping distances. Modern cars have ABS to stop the wheels locking anyway.

Cheers,
TB

 

Hello children everywhere
The problem here is that most of you do not equalise the engine speed to the transmission speed when changing down, thus slipping the clutch and using the clutch for slowing the car, instead of the engine.
If your first car had been a 1928 Austin 7 you would understand this.
So use the engine as brake, not the clutch.
Some years ago I did 110,000 miles in a Thema turbo after a gearbox and clutch rebuild, which had been wrecked by the first owner in 50,000.

Hello oh wise one. My main concern is that even when rev matching during downchanging, engine braking causes the gearbox to be loaded wrongly as the gears are optimised to take torque from the engine towards the wheels, not the other way round

 

No need for engine braking these days. It was necessary on older cars but no longer.

As already said, I'd rather pay for pads and discs than a gearbox rebuild.

wrinx

 

i,ve got a 33 and engine breaking is compulsory it says so in the manual if all else fails open the doors for increased drag

 

fix a chain to it and chuck it out the window................

 

Put your foot through the big hole in the floor and press hard on the pavement. Works for older alfa's.:cheese: Not mine of course.:lol: