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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, I've just replace the engine in the car but it fails to start, I didn't think that this would be easy as the distributor was loose when I received the engine and I assumed that the timing would be a problem but I can't seem to get fuel out of the mechanical pump.

Does the mechanical fuel pump need to be primed? as the filter doesn't seem to fill?

Is there a rule of thumb or any tricks to get the distributor in the correct position? it currently uses the Bosch pointless distributor?

Thanks Phil
 

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Hi Phil,
Not sure what your background skills are, so forgive me if I point out the obvious.

Was the new engine running beforehand?
Do you still have access to your old engine?

Set your new engine to TDC and check the rotor arm is pointing to cylinder 1, it could be 180 degrees out. check you have a spark.

check the HT leads are in the correct order, it goes in a circular way with 1 being at the front right of the engine as you sit in the car, then 3, back right, then front left, then rear left, the last 2 are swapped around.

If you still have access to your old engine, swap over the pump. the diaphragm could have gone, or the rod could be worn, or the tank could be empty.
 

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The std mech fuel pump should not need to be primed. If it's not pumping fuel it's likely stuffed, swap it with the known good one from your old engine as BigAl said. But first, take the dizzy cap off and turn the engine over - is the dizzy shaft/rotor arm turning?

Haynes manual is worth it's weight in gold here, as it does give basic dizzy setup positions, but pointing the rotor at #1 with the engine at TDC as suggested should at least get it running, then you can set timing properly with a timing light. Oh - have you checked that you're getting a spark? Take out a plug, connect it back into the lead, and sit it against the engine somewhere to earth. Should see the spark when engine turned over.

Have you checked the cambelts are both intact and cam timing correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the help. I it the old motors pump on tonight and it now has fuel to all cylinders.
There is spark at the plugs but I'm not sure on the timing. You say point the rotor arm to #1 cylinder at TDC. Forgive my ignorance but it that to the #1 cylinder terminal in the distributor or actually to the#1 cylinder on the engine? And if so the arm seems to remain ridgid when the housing is turned. I tried to lift it up an turn it but it seems to only go in one position. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks Phil
 

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Thanks for the help. I it the old motors pump on tonight and it now has fuel to all cylinders.
There is spark at the plugs but I'm not sure on the timing. You say point the rotor arm to #1 cylinder at TDC. Forgive my ignorance but it that to the #1 cylinder terminal in the distributor or actually to the#1 cylinder on the engine? And if so the arm seems to remain ridgid when the housing is turned. I tried to lift it up an turn it but it seems to only go in one position. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks Phil
It will be on the distributor. I am just going through the same issue. When you turn the engine over using a spanner on the alternator or main crank the rotor arm should point to cylinder 1 contact as if the cap was on. If not slacken the dizzy clamp and take it out get the TDC mark lined up.Then turn rotor and so in line with cylinder 1 and and carefully wiggle dizzy back in to match up drive grooves on the bottom.
 

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Take the dizzy cap off, remove the plastic bung on top of the rear engine cover, next to the dizzy, and take the right hand cam cover off. Turn the engine over until the pointer down the hole points at the 'T' stamped on the flywheel, and the mark on the rear journal of the camshaft lines up with the mark on the cam box housing, now you're at TDC for cyl #1. No need to take the dizzy itself out.

Loosen the dizzy clamp and turn the dizzy body so that the rotor arm is pointing directly at the terminal in the dizzy cap for the #1 cyl lead, when the dizzy cap is fitted. Of course you can't see that the rotor arm is pointing at the right place with the dizzy cap on, but you will just have to line it up as best you can. Close enough should get the engine running at least.

With the dizzy the rotor arm is rigidly connected to the crankshaft (ignoring the advance mechanism inside the dizzy) and it's the dizzy body itself which is adjusted to set the timing.

I have a spare Haynes manual I'll post it to you for $25 if you like.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks all for your help, I managed to get it running today. I found an old Alfa workshop manual and it said turn the flywheel to tdc lift the rotor arm to the tiny line on the edge and boom it started. I still will need to get the timing sharpened up with a light but I am moving along now.

Thanks again everyone!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Update: the car runs ok which is good but misses a little. The timing was an issue because the oil pump needs to be removed and rotated to the right location.
I'm going to change the ht leads, plugs and coil next week.

Best thing though is that the engine was bought out of the car so I never heard it run. No smoke, leaks or knocks etc. It also sounds completely different also with the exhaust I got which is a cross over type.

Good fun and the adventure continues.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So the saga continues, it started with all the leads moved around one, when I put the engine at TDC and removed the distributor then peered down the hole I could see that the slot in the shaft wasn't sitting in at the angle described in the Haynes manual. I've removed the sump changed the pump shaft position to what looked right and reassembled it all back together. Now it won't start at all arrgh!!
Does any body know a easy way to set the oil pump shaft so it is in the correct position?

Thanks Phil
 

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I don't think the position of the drive slot is very critical except to position the dizzy so the plug leads follow a sensible path to the plugs. Certainly shouldn't stop it from starting.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Got it started but I had to move the leads 180 degrees on the distributor. I'm not sure why this is. Maybe some body could shine a light on why??

Thanks Phil.
 

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So the plug leads are all crossing over each other at the dizzy? That means the engine has been timed up slightly wrong. When you fit the cambelts, it should be at TDC on the firing stroke of cylinder #1. That is when the rotor arm is pointing at the terminal for #1 plug lead (so firing #1 cylinder). Because the dizzy turns at half crank speed, you can line the T on the flywheel up when the dizzy is pointing at cyl 2, which will mean you have to move the leads 180 deg like you have.

To fix it, get it to TDC with the cam marks lining up, remove the cambelts, turn the crank through 1 revolution - now the rotor arm should be pointing to cyl 1 terminal on the dizzy cap - and refit the cambelts. Simple. But make sure you're careful to keep all the valves as closed as possible and turn the crank slowly so you don't do any harm.
 

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I agree with both of the last two posts. If all timing was correct then you may have had to gently wiggle dizzy in then rotate to correct position. As things may be a bit messed up slowly do above. Easier with rad out. I does work. I had to do when my sons engine got out of time. (long story).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Will the engine turn over with the valves stationary, I would have thought the valves would hit the pistons preventing this. Could I remove the distributor and oil pump, rotate the engine one turn and reinsert the pump and shaft?
 

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No you can't take the sump off and turn the oil pump/dizzy drive through 180deg as you suggest because then the cam timing will be 180deg out and it won't work.

From memory the right bank is easy all valves are closed when engine at TDC left bank is slightly trickier you likely will have to turn cam until valves are closed. Then crank can just be rotated, easier with plugs out. If this doesn't work the only other way is to remove the heads...
 
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