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if the subframe is aligned correctly and there's not too much corrosion, the bolts should go in without any effort.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
The engine builder told me to refit the old right-side engine mounting given the problems of fitting the new one and to proceed with the correct alignment of the subframe. Well, in the process of removing the new engine mounting and replacing it with the old I discovered that the engine had been 'leaning' onto the subframe and probably the "bang" I heard yesterday was the engine slipping off the subframe. So now the engine was quite free so I decided to remove a large screw-driver that I had placed into the bolt holes of the top engine steady mounting and replace the bolt into position finger-tight. I then jacked up the sump and found that I was able to install the new right front engine mounting and screwed in the bolt by hand as far as it would go until it tightened fully but I was not sure if it should tighten by hand until fully engaged with mounting so I stopped there and did not attempt using a socket - please see photo.
I also by luck, managed to position one of the tunnel studs but am not sure if the metal plate/gasket/washer is sandwiched between the tunnel and the subframe or on the outside of the subframe. When I tried raising the subframe I found it was lifting the body off the axles. Also, there really was no sufficient lateral movement to align the subframe even after loosening the front long bolts further so whilst sitting quite bewildered staring at the chassis legs where the front long bolts are (should be) located, I believed that the two bolts were not in corresponding positions!? Please see photos and let me know if what I see is an optical illusion!
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You should do only 1 thing at a time, mounting engine or subframe, trying to align both make a job harder. Mount the engine, front 2 mounts and the top rear stabilizer, then install the subframe and then install rear engine mount that connects to the subframe.

the double washer is on the outside.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Thank you Botasky. The top and left mountings are in position and the right mounting needs tightening as you can see in the photo but I don't know whether or not I should use a socket to finish tightening the bolt or whether the bolt should insert fully by hand before using a socket to tighten fully?
 

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Using a socket is fine, just pay attention if it start binding up.

Sent from my BLA-L29 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #66
Thank you. Without your help I really would not know what to do!
What are your thoughts regarding the photos that suggest possibly the long front subframe bolts have been fitted asymmetrically?
 

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you need to get the subframe to sit against the body before tightening the bolts. don't use the bolts to pull it up.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
The initial installation of the two front long subframe bolts was the work of the engine builder and he had serious difficulties with the left-side trying both chassis holes that are close together on the left side.
He asked me to complete the installation once he screwed in the front long bolts (not fully). I am now convinced that the misalignment is caused by one of the two long front bolts being screwed into the wrong hole. There are three holes on both chassis/body arms/legs. Two of them are quite close together. Here is where the two bolts are screwed in asymmetrically so one of them must be in the wrong hole. If I can find out which hole is the correct one I only need to undo the bolt on one side and then I will be able to achieve alignment?
 

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My car is at the paint shop sorry I can't remember which hole is correct, looking at the photo again now I can see the problem, one side is in the middle hole and another is in the back hole, correct? I'm pretty sure the hole further to the front is not the correct hole. Just remove both bolts and lift the subframe up with a jack and line it up, there's seem to be quite a bit of distance between them, meaning if you choose the wrong front mounting hole, the rear mounting would be way off, so when you trying to line the subframe up with the body, you'll know which hole is correct. Obviously don't make the same mistake as your engine builder did where he uses the middle hole on one side and the back hole for the other. When you get all the front and rear holes line up then you can start putting the bolts in.
 

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Discussion Starter #70
That's correct Botasky! Thank you for confirming!
The subframe crashed down on top of me but no serious harm done!
I'm on my own so I'm going to try and raise the subframe using a cross member adaptor for support.
Please confirm the photos show that the tunnel twin-studs have been correctly positioned?
Could I leave them in place if they are correct whilst I try to bolt-up the subframe?
 

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I can't see the photo. The double studs are on the top of the subframe pointing toward the ground, it goes through the rubber bushings on the tunnel, then the double washer and then 2 nuts on each side. The stud must be installed before the subframe, or you'll have to take the subframe off again, I made that mistake haha.
 

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Discussion Starter #72
By your description I have fitted them ok but should the two-hole washer be fitted on the outside of the subframe and compressed by the nuts or are they sandwiched in the middle between the tunnel and the subframe? Yes, you warned me before that the studs must go in first or go back to the beginning as I
am doing now!!!


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Discussion Starter #73
Stalemate!...........
The engine builder arrived for installation of cylinder head unaware that I had not successfully installed the subframe. On inspection, he found that I had mounted the subframe front posts into the threads that are closest to the bulkhead toward the cabin. He argued that the posts in this position could interfere with the brake lines and therefore it was not possible that they are the correct holes. He removed the subframe and repositioned it in the holes leading towards the front of the car. However, even with bolts tight, there is still a significant gap between the subframe and the mounting holes in the rear that attach to the holes in the floor.
Should I not try, perhaps, to start from the rear including tunnel studs and swing the subframe posts up towards the correct corresponding holes to try and resolve this issue?
 

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I haven't tried started mounting the subframe from the back, I think it might be harder because the bolts are shorter, so it's harder to use the bolt to locate the hole.

"even with bolts tight, there is still a significant gap between the subframe and the mounting holes in the rear that attach to the holes in the floor. " well then, that's your answer. if the rear holes don't line up, the front posts are attached to the wrong hole. I don't recall that the subframe is interfering with the brake lines, if it fits and doesn't touch the lines that means they're ok, they're only hard-line inside the engine bay / subframe area, they aren't going to move and touch the subframe when the car is turning.

You should try without any bolts installed, jack up the frame to the body and see where it will line up, that'll be much easier than guessing which holes are correct.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Well,...I tried again and I'm pleased I'm here to talk about it!
There were some strange creaks, rattles, bangs, cracks and odd cacophony and I have made some progress but almost at a great price........
After a desperate attempt to re-design the leading edges of the tunnel I was rewarded with a little more cooperation from the subframe and finally believed that I was making progress and was actually able to align the right-side with only an inch gap to the body and the tunnel pins also lined-up........but the left-side had other ideas and was not willing so I jacked the subframe as far as it would go and tried using the alignment holes on the subframe with some extensions and after a peculiar screech the subframe appeared to settle on the left-side as well but the car rocked away from the axle stand on the right-side! I somehow scrambled away from the left-side and stood up to those famous words...."lunch is ready"...it was an eerie feeling and remarkably, the car was being supported at the front by the left-side axle-stand!
Before going indoors to lunch and to prove to myself that I had survived another incident, I decided to review the subframe position. The right-side is practically lined-up and ready to be bolted and the left-side is almost there........but,....and very oddly, the posts for the front long bolts are one inch (left) and one and a half inches (right) away from their location holes.........so the posts were not lifting the body...?
As a precaution, I chose to lower the engine support despite the complaining new engine mountings that seemed to distort somewhat but it did have the effect of lowering the right-side back onto the axle-stand.
I couldn't resist measuring-up an OMP subframe stiffening bar that I bought as part of a kit only to find that it is the wrong size..........
 

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Discussion Starter #76
Another day underneath the TS and I may have made some progress....or not........
The right-side is in contact, almost flush with the body/chassis and I have wound in one bolt on the outside hole at the rear of the subframe. The tunnel studs protrude correctly on both sides but there is a problem on the left-side. It reaches about one inch or 2.5 cm and binds. If I try to lift any higher the car lifts away from the axle-stands. At the moment, the right-side axle-stand acts only as a fail-safe and the car is not in contact with it. I did find that there was contact between the C.V flanges and the subframe that was causing the whole car to be lifted off the axle-stands upon lowering the engine height and raising the subframe. There was no other visible obstruction to reveal the cause of the subframe binding?
Two parts, a small locking-nut and a washer fell out of somewhere during today's endeavour. Does anyone know where I need to return them?
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!
 

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The nut and this washer are on the inner CV. The CV flange and the subframe are contacting because the engine leans back lowering the CV flange, you have to jack up or lift the engine a bit, then after you complete mounting the subframe, attach the rear engine mount and that will hold the engine up permanently.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
Thank you Botasky especially for your encouragement that has helped me this morning to make some progress I hope! I was unable to line-up the subframe flush with the body but as I had managed to secure the subframe on the right-side and as the left-side was close enough, I decided to try and screw in the front posts. Well, it worked I think and the subframe is now self-supporting as I have wound, by hand only, both posts and the outside rears of the subframe. Is it safe at this stage to use tools to screw the bolts in fully? They will not wind by hand any further.
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Maybe the pictures help?
 

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Can you use the jack to lift the subframe any higher? If you can get the subframe to sit against the body of the car, that'll be the best approach, but that being said, the subframe is not too heavy, using the bolt to lift it up is relatively safe, just make sure to only tighten a few turns at a time per bolt then move to the opposite side, like installing the wheel. Using a ratchet socket or a wrench is fine, just be mindful about how much force you are using.
 

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Discussion Starter #80
Can you use the jack to lift the subframe any higher? If you can get the subframe to sit against the body of the car, that'll be the best approach, but that being said, the subframe is not too heavy, using the bolt to lift it up is relatively safe, just make sure to only tighten a few turns at a time per bolt then move to the opposite side, like installing the wheel. Using a ratchet socket or a wrench is fine, just be mindful about how much force you are using.
I can raise the subframe a little more up to the point where the posts push onto the body and raise the car off the axle stands. The rear does not reach the body when the posts do and there is about an inch gap. That might be roughly the length of thread on the rear bolts. I suppose if the front posts were wound tighter that might also raise the rear toward the body? Is there any risk of damage to the threads by raising the subframe further, given that the installed bolts are currently wound in by hand?
 
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