Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 91 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have never worked with an engine before and the rebuild and refit started in March 2019........

The engine and gearbox were on a pallet and I was able to raise each corner using 4 jacks but I had alignment problems and was worried that I might damage the threads for the engine mountings.....the engine builder told me to remove the pallet and use two jacks one for engine and one for gearbox but I became fed-up with adjusting 4 jacks with the pallet and bought a cross-beam support that requires only one jack to operate. I also added an engine support beam that sits on the bulkhead with two hooks thinking it would help equalise the weight distribution.........

Well, that didn't work either even with the assistance of the engine builder so I bought an engine crane/hoist............there might have been a chance had the crane worked.........the weld of the main beam snapped and the engine and gearbox crashed down onto some wood.........I cannot find any damage to the sump but am worried about hairline cracks that are not visible to the eye. Advice please on how to handle crane issue with supplier who refunded immediately on image of cracked weld. Also, I cannot obtain a decent engine crane for 3-5 days so I am back to using the bulkhead engine support and cross beam jack. The former seems more stable now but can only be used diagonally. As the engine is jacked from the bottom, the gearbox end swings out of the engine bay and engine side swings in toward the steering rack.........maybe I should position the cross beam jack not beneath the two engine mountings but maybe elsewhere?

There is, however, a miracle(s) to this saga, I had only just got up from underneath the car when the weld snapped on the crane!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
ouch!!!! Did it drop far, a horrifying moment tho I bet but a very lucky escape too.

Last time I did anything like this was on a sud, well 2 in fact a long time ago and for those I hired a crane which worked fine. Used to drop and lift the engine as well as then lifting the body high enough to be able to get the engine/box out from under the car.

Glad you got a prompt refund on the crane you purchased but doesn't help getting the job done. Any hire shops around that still rent out cranes I wonder? Might be quicker and they're usually good quality or used to be. As you say, the risk is any damage to the engine/box that may not show right away, not sure if the crane supplier would cover any resulting costs but you may get lucky.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
I've removed and installed engines a few times in the last month, removing the TS and installing the 2.5 V6 a few times, The TS is harder to work with since it likes to tip forward. I think using an engine crane is the best option for the TS. However, if you can support the engine in a way that it would not tip forward, I found that lowering the car down to the engine is easier and might be safer. the left and right engine mount can move quite a bit, you can bend it with your hand so the bolts can thread in, don't screw them all the way, get all the bolt in halfway first then aligning the engine is easy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
ouch!!!! Did it drop far, a horrifying moment tho I bet but a very lucky escape too.

Last time I did anything like this was on a sud, well 2 in fact a long time ago and for those I hired a crane which worked fine. Used to drop and lift the engine as well as then lifting the body high enough to be able to get the engine/box out from under the car.

Glad you got a prompt refund on the crane you purchased but doesn't help getting the job done. Any hire shops around that still rent out cranes I wonder? Might be quicker and they're usually good quality or used to be. As you say, the risk is any damage to the engine/box that may not show right away, not sure if the crane supplier would cover any resulting costs but you may get lucky.
Thank you for your reply. I decided to buy another crane of an established brand. In the meantime I will need some consumer advice to pursue potential sump and gearbox costs......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I've removed and installed engines a few times in the last month, removing the TS and installing the 2.5 V6 a few times, The TS is harder to work with since it likes to tip forward. I think using an engine crane is the best option for the TS. However, if you can support the engine in a way that it would not tip forward, I found that lowering the car down to the engine is easier and might be safer. the left and right engine mount can move quite a bit, you can bend it with your hand so the bolts can thread in, don't screw them all the way, get all the bolt in halfway first then aligning the engine is easy
Thank you for your very useful advice. I am awaiting delivery for another crane of a reputable brand. The issue of the threads is that which has troubled me most. I'm worried that there is high risk of damaging the screw threads if I effectively use them as locating bolts? Also, do you have any tips for managing the sandwich plate on the gearbox side? It seems to have a mind of its own and does not want to line up with the mounting!? There does not appear to be a sandwich plate for the right side?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
If you can get the bolts in at least halfway and you don't put a load on them they'll be fine, just use your finger or grab the ratchet handle at the head to screw them in to make sure they're not under load, they should screw without any effort. The sandwich plate is only on the left side, if you can get 1 bolt in to locate it, he rest should be easy, just get the mount to roughly line up to the car then move the plate in place and put the bolt in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thank you for the good advice - the engine and gearbox are now connected to the body! I now need to fit the rear mounting but the screws have been mixed-up. I have only identified the screw that bolts to the block and the nut that fits on the gearbox stud. I think that an exhaust bracket also connects to the rear mounting?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Sort them by size first and you'll be good, 2 M12 long bolts for the mount at the front of the subframe, 8 M10 bolts for the lower control arms (4 short bolts for the outside, 2 medium for the front inside and 2 long bolt for rear inside) look at the washer size carefully, you might get them mixed up with small subframe bolts, make sure all control arms bolt have the same size washer on them. 4 M12 bolts for the rear of the subframe, 2 M10 in between the rear M12 bolts. Don't forget to put the exhaust tunnel studs on top of the subframe before tightening the subframe down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Sort them by size first and you'll be good, 2 M12 long bolts for the mount at the front of the subframe, 8 M10 bolts for the lower control arms (4 short bolts for the outside, 2 medium for the front inside and 2 long bolt for rear inside) look at the washer size carefully, you might get them mixed up with small subframe bolts, make sure all control arms bolt have the same size washer on them. 4 M12 bolts for the rear of the subframe, 2 M10 in between the rear M12 bolts. Don't forget to put the exhaust tunnel studs on top of the subframe before tightening the subframe down.
That's a great help. The control arms were not removed so it is just the subframe and rear mounting!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I'm still struggling with the bolts I'm afraid. I found a photo from a supplier of lower wishbone/control arm bolts and it indicates there are three sizes used. I also found a short black stabilizer bar amongst the bolts I have left to fit. I recall that it might connect on one side to the rear engine mounting? What about the other end? EPER also indicates that there is a 'C' shaped support that sits on top of the rear mounting and I don't seem to have one? If anyone has a photo of this part and knows the nut and bolt size that would be a great help please...also, should I connect the drive shafts now before installing the subframe? Or would it be the lower wishbones/control arms first?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Sort everything by size and take a picture, maybe I can help you find where they go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thank you Botasky!
The four longest bolts I know go into the subframe but I am not sure about the locations.
The two shiny silver nuts are for the drop links but that is all I recognise. Please see photo also of control arm bolt set. I also do have the two exhaust tunnel studs.
942113
942109
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Did you disconnected the lower control arms as well, you said a few post ago that you didn't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Sorry but I think what I said is confusing. The lower wishbones/control arms were disconnected only from the subframe. The uppers were left in place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
942119

1. outer/inner rear subframe mount
2. rear engine mount (see the photo below)
3. front tunnel mount, the 2 double studs go on to of the subframe pointing down, the 2 plates with 2 holes go under the tunnel shield, 4 nuts go on 4 studs, the rubber cylinder fall out of one of the tunnel shield mounting hole.
4. 2 of the 3 are for the inner rear lower control arms, I'm not sure about another one though.
5. Inner front lower control arms.
6. 4 of those are for the outer control arms and 2 are for middle rear subframe mount(between 1), look carefully, they're a little bit different, the ones for the rear subframe mount has a little bigger washer. The last one is probably for the rear engine mount.
7. I'm not 100% sure on these, but I think these are for the tunnel shield.
8. front subframe mount
9. steering rack


I'm not sure about the rest, but this should give you a pretty good start. Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Correction:
942124

rear rubber engine mount to subframe this might be incorrect since the bolts on my subframe also has a stud on the top, but I don't see that kind of bolt here.
942137


942125

ridgid rear engine mount to rubber mount on the subframe

942126

anti-roll bar mount to subframe?

942127

ridgid engine mount to the engine block?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Thank you Botasky! The bolts and other parts are all labelled now and I am just waiting for a new stronger jack and bigger axle stands that my girlfriend bought for me because of the large number of incidents' there have been in the garage throughout the process! I am concerned that I am missing a few parts like the "collar" that according to EPER fits on top of the rear engine mounting and the bolt with a stud as in your photo. If anyone has a photo of the "collar" please post.

In the meantime, should I not proceed with the drive-shafts first before commencing with the subframe? I found all the drive-shaft bolts to be covered in grease. Should I put them back in this way or should they be dry? There are some drive-shaft washers with two holes. Do they have to be placed in a specific way and how many should there be per shaft? Also, do I need to grease any other part of the drive-shaft?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
When you refer to "collar" you mean this heat shield? I'm guessing it protects the rubber mount from the exhaust heat, if you don't have it, it would make sense that your #7 bolts would not have the stud coming out on the top.
942198

942199


regarding the drive shaft, I would put it on after the subframe is bolted in, but before the lower control arms, the control arms need to be disconnected in order to put the out side end of the drive shafts through the wheelhub. There're 6 bolts and 3 washers per driveshaft, the washer has 2 holes, so 2 bolts per 1 washer, everything will line up when you put them in, don't worry about the order. According to the workshop manual, the bolts need to be replace every time since they have thead-locker on them, but I reuseed them, clean the grease off and put some thread locker on the bolt before you install the driveshafts. The TS uses 6mm hex, so it's more likely to strip than the v6 which uses 8mm hex, if any of the bolt head is starting to strip, I recommend you to replace the bolts, I stripped 1 bolt when removing the TS engine and it was a pain to remove a stripped driveshaft bolt. I would put a little bit of anti-seize on the splined outside end of the driveshaft where it meets the wheelhub just to make removal next time easier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
775 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Excellent thank you Botasky! On your previous post your photo does not appear regarding the black rear mounting stabilizer - number 2
 
1 - 20 of 91 Posts
Top