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Discussion Starter #1
Ok a follow on from previous post..

Car will turn over fine but not fire. Injector light is on while cranking but not otherwise so I hope that's normal.

I've tried to locate the fuel pump relay but it doesn't seem to tie in with the pictures in the manual - see below boot and bonnet pics. I can't hear any pump or relay clicks, but then again I can hear very little of anything these days...
I tried to check fuel cut-off switch but it's simply not there (Passenger footwell)! Car is a phase 1 R-reg (1998) I think.

Can anyone tell me the best way to check for fuel flow? I have located the filter under the car by offside rear so could disconnect one of the unions there..

Cheers

Relays under the bonnet..


In the boot

 

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According to the hard copy manuals I have on yours the pump relay S12a is supplied by the main relay S41 and is protected by fuse S47.
Now for some confusion I'm afraid!
S47 is the fuse on the left in your photo under bonnet on the bulkhead, but elsewhere it is under the off-side plastic cover just behind the headlamp. 10A.
S41 is relay on left in your photo under the bonnet, but also shown under the off-side plastic cover just behind the headlamp.
S12a is under the off-side plastic cover just behind the headlamp. 30A.
It also states 'it is always wise to check exact location of a relay or fuse by the colour of the wires.

So here goes:-

Colours for Motronic M2.10.3, if that is what you have. Up to chassis 6023906.
S41 are:- red x 2, red-white, red-green, light blue-red.
S12a are:- red, red-black, pink-white,black,grey-black.
fuel pump has:- purple-black, pink-yellow and the purple-black goes to H20 which is the inertia switch.
For M2.10.4,
S41, green-black, green, red, purple-black, red-white.
S12a red, purple-black, plus one that just has an arrow labelled 'fuel pump'.
fuel pump has:- purple-black, pink-yellow and the purple-black goes to H20 which is the inertia switch.
Now inertia switch H20. It has colours, black, purple-black, green (is shown as left-hand-side footwell) has earth G63b which it states is the left hand rear earth which has about 25 wires going to it on the Spider. Inside boot on the left hand low down.

However, I always though the pump relay was in the boot.

Another fuse you might want to inspect is S36 which is the fuse for injection relay.

i wonder if your crank sensor is possibly u/s. Or even the immobiliser (Alfa Code) playing up. Do you still have the Code Card?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks chaps I'm back home now and the car is a few miles away. I did check under the front wheel side covers but didn't spot any relays although I did see where the cobra alarm was fitted. Foolishly I didn't check drivers foot well for inertia cut-off, hopefully Thursday.. Left hand fuse holder under bonnet has a 15A fuse fitted which buzzed out ok. I also cleaned up the terms of the left hand relay but no difference.
I cant't hear any priming sounds at all but like I say my hearing is poor.

So are we saying that none of the boot relays are related to the fuelling?

Cheers

James
 

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Relying on manual here, but the relays in the boot for the Spider are mainly for hood operation if you've the hydraulic type. Cannot remember which Alfa I checked an inertial switch on last year but that one wasn't in the footwell but under the passenger seat. On my GTV it is next where the passenger's left foot would go, so quite obvious.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Relying on manual here, but the relays in the boot for the Spider are mainly for hood operation if you've the hydraulic type. Cannot remember which Alfa I checked an inertial switch on last year but that one wasn't in the footwell but under the passenger seat. On my GTV it is next where the passenger's left foot would go, so quite obvious.
Cheapskate manual roof for me I'm afraid - even though I have Lusso trim, well leather seats and non-working Airco.
 

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Cheapskate manual roof for me I'm afraid - even though I have Lusso trim, well leather seats and non-working Airco.
I think you're better off with the manual hood. In that case the relays in the boot are for:-

luggage compartment opening, fuel flap and key-operated supply cut-off (!).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I think you're better off with the manual hood. In that case the relays in the boot are for:-

luggage compartment opening, fuel flap and key-operated supply cut-off (!).
Really? Any idea which of the seven relays in the boot is the cut off ? A had a PDF manual on CD some time back
but I think it's now lost..
 

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I'll have to look later in the manuals.

Ok so I've had a look and the key operated relay is either I 108, 20A, or I 35, 30A.
I108 has light blue-red, black, red and light blue-black wires

I35 has light blue, red, black and light blue-red. Both have black bases. However they seem to be more to do with other systems but not fuel pump.

The relay that keeps coming up in descriptions and diagrams is S12a, 30A.

I still have thoughts re the immobiliser system as that will not energise a lot of others if it is not 'satisfied'.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the last messages - been laid up with 'man flu' last few days :weeping:.In an effort to locate the mysterious relay 12a (fuel pump) I took some more pics. As you can see nothing under the offside wing..https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zOMDKf9iILxDQVcKft19fKPgpBqaajGMqwVjwTLgnm7fXS6MfV7vl_VNaPUIuoUVEKbXjnOdoIyewY2r_1j9vdxIpGPy2JY5J_rHenpRYxQJQRQ1W2Ms-X9ssfHIjiVwb_ufYH57zPNzHovGga_rzLGRZ5GCyVR2pqYDkilP4SaWeo3U85G3uLfJeVjiFSczG4H13wbu-0wFpIL4My_AxWXLlHcJQmjvmwvo0KWmbmOfz6OGYZxZ6VXD5Ulm4qHgBTsLWe9yEYJxxAh6i76oUWnLMSj-7vvCo6pi_fve_L5MIXA9ccwMM3M0h_aNMrR9IGkSQB9GBedU3GJ-TAMkJBkMWThVUS0bsB0_bP7S9IA6UMgQT4LpvrSB3MxS52FUgN6_T1AmaXPQ4wqdqNKaa9ifHijPP4_xHpoJvkOSFVsWca30Y61sdk1NK1tWPpNO6AN7gS2VgiN_YJV4v3cpdq-iG50NVP_lm3paCHeAGd6CJjQe886ZLXumunq7-OQP_Pawkihzgl43CQuxsSJvVFcoBmAlI0B9x2YtVJni3vIg2nbOMa6nMmaNmd9WgU3VCXZob12pSddGOEVcDBmIvhuUhKjPf8h0i-zC6WQ=w1125-h675-no

Close up of the one I suspect that is lying 'loose' in the boot..

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BvUfjPZc5w14WbwTxDTLoyITt-hghnce9tif_lCCl75z4fkntqfcZ7fpQz-RXTZso4kg_4DdpU4rsQx6SWB-cuKCVH5SQehyvkGPPodWdu05eQGWnfyFf12-vSY-a-C-nup9Gkt4_yrJKgoibXWayZJmKcbNMdL3DIS1N9qFIi_IP8ROgC0RvfklpLk24Ma6v3M91O0zdFACA44Bpir8nbvCftZ2xnO1FYdUH45fzpgD-YPpvPYu_TeO9O7Mk_y82aYgF9uhVTyDO0cN9Z2e0drXHw-37GBBuQ-8HSDHmIqkO9OO4zohXvhBz-GtBosgJ2tmQtHD6R_KSXM2MsrC32S0lpaJSk0RQnIYNIXCjZ6uyRVjSu-isP0ELtBOwCHOlQlXd2SFOvnxzgAXSblBbtVCzBLGM2CcOP6X0mf2Geqbz2ZqJ93SbzfALPKNP2SGlYqnGBcBsXm3PAIdWbzCxQQp1IJCIKgTPSco90UvKymFoh8azz1pA_SsJfaQIgxSP_O1iqREMO639bfDW0hmO6Kr61hjEp6QFuDmcT5nLtt803VHYhSHbnq5K9kxJUnRB7u8xPrIOpF2qAXjHiKCdoOzD8Q_9B8_3F4oeDA=w405-h675-no

The cut off switch was indeed in the drivers footwell (how the hell did I miss it?!!) but depressing seemed to have little effect (didn't feel any movement even).

Cheers

J
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Abandoned my FP relay search and roped in my brother today to check voltage at the fuel pump. On turning the ignition key it (the connector) fleetingly registers 12.4 V which I understand might be correct (or should the voltage be constant?).
If this is correct then maybe i've been wasting time chasing a fueling issue and it might be ignition related. What's the easiest way to check for a spark - those plugs look awfully cosy tucked way down there and I'm not sure I've a plug spanner to fit.

Cheers
 

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How fleetingly? If for a second or two it may be that the ecu is going through its checks and if not satisfied that all is in order is shutting down the electrical supply. You need a very deep socket to get to the plugs, easier to get another plug, any for just a test, and using one of the coil packs to see if there's a spark. Could still be immobiliser. Had exactly the same problem with my daughter's Punto before we picked it up from the dealers. That was the immobiliser.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
How fleetingly? If for a second or two it may be that the ecu is going through its checks and if not satisfied that all is in order is shutting down the electrical supply. You need a very deep socket to get to the plugs, easier to get another plug, any for just a test, and using one of the coil packs to see if there's a spark. Could still be immobiliser. Had exactly the same problem with my daughter's Punto before we picked it up from the dealers. That was the immobiliser.
Yes a second or two, no more. . So the engine will happily crank even if the immobiliser is set on? I assume your referring to a the standard fitment as with this car I also inherited a 'Cobra' alarm which may complicate issues.

Cheers
 

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The immobiliser will allow the engine to crank but not start. If that is the case usually the code symbol will illuminate though. If it is the crank sensor the ecu doesn't know where the engine is in the cycle so won't be able to produce a spark. Usually if that's the case it happens when the engine is warm, is stopped, say for filling up at the petrol station, then wil not start.
 

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James sounds like you have a similar problem to me


I have just ordered the diagnostic cable for the ph1 and a cam sensor as recommended on the forum at £20 worth a punt, I will let you know how I get on ?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks chaps - I'll take a closer look for the CODE light next time. With respect to OBD readers what do people recommend for a PH1?
I had a ODB => USB cable once but never really used it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks again for all the input so far I have a small update..

Code light goes off and at last I roped in my bro. to check for a spark - which it has so this rules out crank sensor (doesn't it)? So what's the best way to check for fuel supply - pull off one of the pipes to the fuel (injector) rail?

Cheers

J
 

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Yes but get the flow into a container as if it does pump it comes out quite quickly. Have you tried connecting the pump directly to a 12 V battery? Might be worth a try.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yes but get the flow into a container as if it does pump it comes out quite quickly. Have you tried connecting the pump directly to a 12 V battery? Might be worth a try.
Good idea - I can get my hands on motorcycle battery I I think that will be easier to connect up...
 
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