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Quick question if I may. I need to replace the to wishbone at the front (play in the ball joint). Was wondering whether to go with Alfa ones or OEM (TRW etc)

Many thanks

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I prefer the Meyle HD’s with the revised bushings


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Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) parts are built by the company that initially made the parts for the auto manufacturer. ... The difference is that it doesn't carry the manufacturer's logo. OEM parts are just as reliable as genuine parts, but you get them for a better value.
 

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I prefer the Meyle HD’s with the revised bushings


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can you elaborate on the Meyle bushing revision? Assume the TRW don't have any improvements from factory stock?
My uppers are about to go, and I'm still on the fence on polyurethane bushings. Anything that lasts longer than 70kkm is preferred.
 

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can you elaborate on the Meyle bushing revision? Assume the TRW don't have any improvements from factory stock?
My uppers are about to go, and I'm still on the fence on polyurethane bushings. Anything that lasts longer than 70kkm is preferred.
Check the powerflex
They do an Adjustable bush for the top arms but be prepared to a lot of squeaking no matter how much grease you put on them
I had them on my car and they are very good as you improve tyre ware immensely but as I drive mainly in town they were going my head in with the noise and removed reverting back to TWR
If you do a lot of motorway driving go for it as the noise will be minimal


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can you elaborate on the Meyle bushing revision? Assume the TRW don't have any improvements from factory stock?
My uppers are about to go, and I'm still on the fence on polyurethane bushings. Anything that lasts longer than 70kkm is preferred.

I use to have the Power Flex ones ( still have them in my garage ), but every year, or roughly 5k Miles they have to take them apart, take the bushings out to grease them again as they do squeak a lot


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I use to have the Power Flex ones ( still have them in my garage ), but every year, or roughly 5k Miles they have to take them apart, take the bushings out to grease them again as they do squeak a lot
Thanks for the link! still need to check if I just need the bushings or the entire arm (current ball joint status). I have heard a lot about these top ones being squeeky from powerflex.
What about the bottom rear ones? I have a set of those laying around I got for free. I'm willing to give them a go if mine give out, well since they were free and labor is not really a problem for me.
Is there a "proper" replacement for those as well, with a redesign, or just the OEM ones? They are the fluid filled kind, seem expensive.
 

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The only 'problem' with the Meyle design is that the bolts need to be torqued up with the arm in its normal riding position.
 

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If you are referring to front wishbone bottom rear end they do not squeak (powerflex) and help immensely with tire wear
The original rubber bush has got so much movement/play

Original Bush


With Powerflex



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The only 'problem' with the Meyle design is that the bolts need to be torqued up with the arm in its normal riding position.
Suppose that could be done before bolting it back on the upright, and marking/eyeballing the wishbone orientation before taking off the wheels.

If you are referring to front wishbone bottom rear end they do not squeak (powerflex) and help immensely with tire wear
The original rubber bush has got so much movement/play

Original Bush


With Powerflex



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Yep that's the one! thanks
 

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If you are referring to front wishbone bottom rear end they do not squeak (powerflex) and help immensely with tire wear
The original rubber bush has got so much movement/play

Original Bush


With Powerflex



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The top video is exactly as we design them. Please don't think a moving joint is wrong. A locked plastic joint is just wrong in so many ways.
 

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The top video is exactly as we design them. Please don't think a moving joint is wrong. A locked plastic joint is just wrong in so many ways.
I am sorry but that is bad design nothing with being wrong or right as there is way too much movement when you turn, when you accelerate, when you brake, when the load is on the wheel in a turn
The powerflex improve that side of the handling immensely, tyre ware with original bushes is abysmal
I had mine on for over 5 years and I saved ££££££££££ in tyres are the front
As your user name suggest you may be an engineer therefore could you please explain in which way it is wrong to fit a powerflex bush at the bottom end of the 159?


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The top video is exactly as we design them. Please don't think a moving joint is wrong. A locked plastic joint is just wrong in so many ways.
I've read your statements and opinions on rubber vs polyurethane, and whilst I partially agree with you, the life on the OE 159 lower wishbone rear bushings is abysmal.
The bushing in the top video shows separation and tearing. It is just simply broken. the hydro part of the bushing departed a long time ago, if it was there to begin with.
Going on your stories of experience you probably know that there is some deformation in polyurethane bushings, especially large ones like this.
934943
934942


And I agree with you that replacing rubber with polyurethane will transfer loads to different parts of the systems, limiting their lifetime. But in this case I think it is worth the risk.
Do remember that most polyurethane bushing are design to have one degree of freedom, and limited movement in all the other axis. So in the axis where it is "supposed" to move with spring compression, it is design to replicate the resistance of a rubber bush. In all the other axis it's more stiff.
All the other component in the suspension system may wear out in 5 years. If it saves me a set of tyres and and makes the car a little les dodgy under braking, that's worth it.
And it might even be cheaper knowing the cost of a set of tires for the 19"Ti wheels.

As your user name suggest you may be an engineer therefore could you please explain in which way it is wrong to fit a powerflex bush at the bottom end of the 159?

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Don't get him started :p
Many cars have this kind of front wishbone setup with a bushing, and most are fine. The ones on my E46 didn't even leak after 15 years 250kkm. I have no idea why the ones on the 159 keep failing after 5 years 50kkm.
Maybe its all worst case with the 159, heavy car, weight at the front, front wheel drive, mostly high torque engines, proper brakes, poor bushings.
 

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I've read your statements and opinions on rubber vs polyurethane, and whilst I partially agree with you, the life on the OE 159 lower wishbone rear bushings is abysmal.
The bushing in the top video shows separation and tearing. It is just simply broken. the hydro part of the bushing departed a long time ago, if it was there to begin with.
Going on your stories of experience you probably know that there is some deformation in polyurethane bushings, especially large ones like this.
View attachment 934943 View attachment 934942

And I agree with you that replacing rubber with polyurethane will transfer loads to different parts of the systems, limiting their lifetime. But in this case I think it is worth the risk.
Do remember that most polyurethane bushing are design to have one degree of freedom, and limited movement in all the other axis. So in the axis where it is "supposed" to move with spring compression, it is design to replicate the resistance of a rubber bush. In all the other axis it's more stiff.
All the other component in the suspension system may wear out in 5 years. If it saves me a set of tyres and and makes the car a little les dodgy under braking, that's worth it.
And it might even be cheaper knowing the cost of a set of tires for the 19"Ti wheels.


Don't get him started :p
Many cars have this kind of front wishbone setup with a bushing, and most are fine. The ones on my E46 didn't even leak after 15 years 250kkm. I have no idea why the ones on the 159 keep failing after 5 years 50kkm.
Maybe its all worst case with the 159, heavy car, weight at the front, front wheel drive, mostly high torque engines, proper brakes, poor bushings.
my lower powerflex were unbearably noisy, tyre wear improved though.

mad for poly deforming the way you demonstrate yes it does but when assembled in the housing with both parts of the bush and fitted to the arm there is no way poly will deform much at all (if any)

to back this up when I first got mine I had a garage fit them due to pressing old bush out, they assembled the Powerflex but then could not get any deformation of the bush to fit in the housings,even pressing it was having non of it.
 

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my lower powerflex were unbearably noisy, tyre wear improved though.

mad for poly deforming the way you demonstrate yes it does but when assembled in the housing with both parts of the bush and fitted to the arm there is no way poly will deform much at all (if any)

to back this up when I first got mine I had a garage fit them due to pressing old bush out, they assembled the Powerflex but then could not get any deformation of the bush to fit in the housings,even pressing it was having non of it.
Agree, when you assemble them the wrong way you wont get them in, and yes the are much much stiffer when assembled. However don't underestimate how much force is applied in suspension components. Try deforming a rubber bushing of that size with your bare hands.

I'm not sure on the powerflex hardness, but the red/yellow components of mine are 80/90 Shore A, about the hardness of a shoe sole.
Car tire thread rubber is up to 70 Shore A, same as old rubber bushings. New rubber bushings are about 60 shore A. Coaster wheels (shopping carts) up to 95 Shore A.
"Plastics" like old engineer describes it are above the Shore A scale, and they are about 80 on the Shore D scale.

Now the reasons poly isn't OE standard has to do with the negative NHV (noise harshness vibration) of the material, even though it would last longer and might improve road feel. It needs lubrication (squeeking) and has negatives on NHV. Comfort (luxury feeling) is a selling point for most OE's so why make their job harder when rubber has perfectly OK properties, is maintenance free and acceptable performance for road going cars?

Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their preferences. And noise is one of the downsides of poly. But poly isn't "wrong" by definition. It has some strengths and weaknesses compared to rubber. The reason the OEM chooses to use rubber might be different from your reason to choose poly.
For a track or rally car I would go 90 Shore poly any day. Squeeky or not. Most group A / S1600 cars have uni-balls where the road-going variants have bushes.
They are not targeted for NHV or maintenance interval of the average man, but pure performance with no limitations.
 

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Had mine on for over 5 years and not a single squeak
The one squeaking were the front top adjustable arm one. Those I removed and reverted back to stock after two years no matter how often they would get re-greased as the pivot in the middle is metal.

I have powerflex on the rear of the gtv and no squeaking either after 3 years


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