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Almost hijacked my own thread on this subject so i thought its better to start a seperate one.

So, what are alfaowner.org users opinions on eToll? i for one, refuse eToll, id rather die that sign on, im sorry, nobody asked for new roads and all of a sudden they want to take our money for something they just went ahead with, mainly for the world cup and failed miserably anyways because they are still not finished, stand around the road doing nothing closing 3 lanes of with no warning at giloolys causing a lot of s**t and then just put up toll gates. AGAIN with no consent, then try and brainwash us in registering, by advertising etoll as if its already in motion, and charging the poor suckers while they currently actually may not and the list of problems go on, so the question is, eToll, Yay or nay?
 

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Not registering. Let the fun start. I'd love to see them try and manage this one. I join the N1 at the N4 interchange (what a mess both ways) and exit at Botha Avenue. Other way in the evenings.
 

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Not registering...I've heard of stories where Metro forces people to register, then those that were foolish registered early and they were already being charged lol...

Its not going to happen, this is a case of arrogant fat cats that do what they want and they expected the public to do as we always do, complain but yet accept, this is different. And they say "but we already spent the money and the loan was to be paid off by the users of the highways..." lol, jammer om van jou kak te hoor!
 
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Look, eToll is gonna happen. Whether you like it or not. If you dont want to pay it, dont drive on the tolled roads. Its as simple as that.

As an economist I know we in SA need infrastructure spending... And in order for government to finance it they need to toll it. Another option for government is to levy a 30c a litre petrol "tax" to finance these roads. But then someone in Cape Town is paying for proper roads in Gauteng. So thats unfair. Or another option is to raise VAT. Then you will hit the poorest of the poor the hardest.

At the end of the day the "pay as you go" concept is the "fairest" of the bunch. I still dont agree with the Toll roads as I see it as a punitive tax. We paying income tax so why should we pay tax on roads. But I do understand government financing and the issues they encounter.
 

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Agreed with Perreby. This is one of the better ways of ensuring that taxes are more targeted. You use you pay, you don't use you don't pay. It's also got potential environmental benefits.
For a very long time, SA's transport infrastructure has been quite poor in terms of efficiency due to previous bad investment decisions (such as narrow gauge rail) and poor maintenance of existing infrastructure.
 

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Screw the E-toll.. If you dont register they cant charge you, unless they get the number-plate photo system working (Our government get something that hightech working :cheese:)

Perreby: I understand we need the infrastructure, and I dont mind paying towards a better country. BUT then I wanna see proper spending from government... if they would just use half the money they STEAL and spend it correctly it would make a huge difference. :thumbs:
 

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Found this on the FB group

"Auditor-General says R21 billion wasted, this could have paid for the Gauteng highways!"

Kinda proves my point above.

This is no attack on you Perreby, Please dont think im tuning your post (its very valid) but I get upset about our government wasting our money!!
 

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I agree. At some stage we'll have to say enough is enough. Prove that our taxes are not being stolen or wasted on useless BEE projects, then we'll reconsider.
 

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Hi Nic Is it your turbo super on junkmail?
With an interview with miss. Zille NOT cocerning e-toll but Chapman's peak tolling system. I know this project might have allot more of an environmental impact than e-toll but she came to the conclusion by being informed by a member of public that environmental impact studies (EIS) are paid by the contractor itself. So the question was the hand that feeds...So why doesn't the government appoint the EIS personnel and let the contractor pay to get an unbiased study?

This is one way projects get of the ground and not being thought trough carefully.
 

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I can live with the E toll if they are realistic with the charges. All said and done we needed the upgrade traffic flow really improved.

The last proposed amount per km would have resulted in a lot of people quitting jobs since traveling from PTA to JHB would make it uneconomical for a breadline family.
I know of households where the wife basically clears R1500 after fuel, day care and all the rest. They need the money to scrape buy but with toll it will not be feasible for her to keep working.
 
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I always find it fascinating how people go about shooting down government. Yes there is corruption and money is stolen. But the amount of money that is stolen as a % of government expenditure is minute. Not condoning corruption and stealing but trying to put it in perspective. Its literally impossible to keep track of all cash in government or to root out corruption completely. Look at the US. The bloke who was on celebrity apprentice who was a senator is in jail for corruption. Its not just here its EVERYWHERE.

Secondly, as a said money stolen via corruption is relatively small amount in terms of overall expenditure. SASOL, Pioneer Foods, Construction companies etc are all engaged in illegal activities, price fixing, market allocation, bribery you name it. Yet they don't get the same flack as government?

Sasol with their price fixing screwed over farmers with manure prices which lead to higher food prices. Pioneer fixed the bread price, screwing the poorest of the poor. Construction companies allocating markets and fixing prices, leading government to pay to much for 2010 related infrastructure etc. So this kind of activities probably cost our country a lot more than government corruption.

And by all accounts government is a lot harder to run than these companies, yet these companies can't stay on the straight and narrow.

So before continuing on the old track of government = bad and corrupt think about the non government enterprises that is just as bad if not worse.

Note I am not condoning or justifying corruption just trying to add some perspective.
 

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i was just going to mention the R21billion wasted!!!
 

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I always find it fascinating how people go about shooting down government. Yes there is corruption and money is stolen. But the amount of money that is stolen as a % of government expenditure is minute. Not condoning corruption and stealing but trying to put it in perspective. Its literally impossible to keep track of all cash in government or to root out corruption completely. Look at the US. The bloke who was on celebrity apprentice who was a senator is in jail for corruption. Its not just here its EVERYWHERE.

Secondly, as a said money stolen via corruption is relatively small amount in terms of overall expenditure. SASOL, Pioneer Foods, Construction companies etc are all engaged in illegal activities, price fixing, market allocation, bribery you name it. Yet they don't get the same flack as government?

Sasol with their price fixing screwed over farmers with manure prices which lead to higher food prices. Pioneer fixed the bread price, screwing the poorest of the poor. Construction companies allocating markets and fixing prices, leading government to pay to much for 2010 related infrastructure etc. So this kind of activities probably cost our country a lot more than government corruption.

And by all accounts government is a lot harder to run than these companies, yet these companies can't stay on the straight and narrow.

So before continuing on the old track of government = bad and corrupt think about the non government enterprises that is just as bad if not worse.

Note I am not condoning or justifying corruption just trying to add some perspective.
The fact that people like you works for them and are proud of admitting it shows that there’s hope for all of us.
People feel powerless and the easiest is to blame it on government and that will never change since it is impossible to keep every single person happy.
As for corruption it happens all over like you said and was just as bad if not worse in the previous government. The only real change is that the current legislation makes sure that it will end up in the papers which never or seldom happened pre 1992.

Come to think of it the pre 1992 setup was corrupt to the core.
 

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Pre-1992 was very very very very very very very corrupt. Wasn't there one guy who took all the blame fo rhis knowing that the state had corrupt deal in "apartheid"?

Come to think of it, I'd 1st make sure every poor person is no longer poor and can sustain themselves, then i'll dip my hand in the never ending cookie jar:cheese:
 

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Unfortunately minimum wage although a necessary evil result is more poor people being unemployed so getting everyone self-sufficient is a major problem.

Maybe they should start enlisting 18 year olds and use them to keep the illegal immigrant out of the country.
Although looking at the state of the old military basis that will probably not work since there seems to be no pride left in the military.
 

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As corrupt as it was.The corrupt personnel involved made sure everything had been been payed for not to arouse suspicion being corrupt and took their ''slice'' . Today they take the ''slice'' and don't care about arousing suspicion.
 

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lmfao...arousing suspicion...that's something the fat cats don't KNOW about let alone care about.
 

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I always find it fascinating how people go about shooting down government. Yes there is corruption and money is stolen. But the amount of money that is stolen as a % of government expenditure is minute. Not condoning corruption and stealing but trying to put it in perspective. Its literally impossible to keep track of all cash in government or to root out corruption completely. Look at the US. The bloke who was on celebrity apprentice who was a senator is in jail for corruption. Its not just here its EVERYWHERE.

Secondly, as a said money stolen via corruption is relatively small amount in terms of overall expenditure. SASOL, Pioneer Foods, Construction companies etc are all engaged in illegal activities, price fixing, market allocation, bribery you name it. Yet they don't get the same flack as government?

Sasol with their price fixing screwed over farmers with manure prices which lead to higher food prices. Pioneer fixed the bread price, screwing the poorest of the poor. Construction companies allocating markets and fixing prices, leading government to pay to much for 2010 related infrastructure etc. So this kind of activities probably cost our country a lot more than government corruption.

And by all accounts government is a lot harder to run than these companies, yet these companies can't stay on the straight and narrow.

So before continuing on the old track of government = bad and corrupt think about the non government enterprises that is just as bad if not worse.

Note I am not condoning or justifying corruption just trying to add some perspective.
Again agreed with Perreby. In South Africa we have some very good, committed people at the top but the implementation of good policies is so difficult because we have so many disinterested or hostile end-users and end-implementers of services.
The bread issue is only one of the very many ways in which private firms charge exorbitant prices for things (think cellphone networks, cable networks) where the marginal costs of production are extremely low. Yet when was the last time people decided to protest against these companies? How about the banks? Are the charges used as efficiently as they should be?
However, having gone on the SANRAL website, I am a bit concerned about the costs per km. I'd love to see the projections which justify the different rates.
 

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Don’t even mention banks I do work for a couple of them and they are the worst payers out there.
Invoices outstanding for 100 day’s seem to be acceptable for them.
Obviously unless you have to pay them.
 
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