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Alcohol actually plays a very small part in the crap of his life although it certainly doesn't help.


He is, of course, his own worst enemy in not seeking help and acknowledging his alcohol problem, but I cannot and will not abandon him.

So you see, not all is as it seems from the outside without a full picture.
Hi,
Will:)
I have the utmost respect for you,
not too abandon your friend.
Outside of family friendship
is the greatest gift we have to give
to one another.
But alas it must be tempered
with give and take.
A friend such has your friend
must be told this,no matter
how pained you both may be.
For I cannot imagine your
pain,
If God forbid,
you have too stand by a cold stone angel
whilst,a family weeps for a loved one.

And please Will do not think this as bullying
on my part,
I have stood under that cold angel.

John.
 

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I disagree.

Most comments seem to think it's a black and white choice - whereas I think it's complex and involved. The easy solution might prevent an accident but will not prevent chaos and misery to a number of innocent parties close to home.

The best solution would be for him to finally realise he has a problem and set forth on a path to complete recovery - better for him, better for his family and better for the general public as a whole.

But that's the tricky part - how to achieve it? His GP is also a fellow pal and he says there is nothing further he can do 'til he admits he has a problem and asks for help.
You have - perhaps without knowing it - provided the answer to your own dilemma.

You know what he should do - you quote your friend - "he says there is nothing further he can do 'til he admits he has a problem" - and that comes from a third party. That would be the "best solution". But, from what you have posted that is just a wish and there are no signs of that happening. You cannot take his problem as your responsibilty.

So if you do nothing you hope it will:- "prevent chaos and misery to a number of innocent parties close to home". But maybe that is what is happening anyway without any (non) action from you. Believe me - if you as an outsider from whom these things are hidden - can see it then the problem is deeper than most can see. Trust me on this.

So where does that leave you?

"The easy solution might prevent an accident"

I would skip "easy" but the truth lies therein.

You cannot help him but you could, potentially help others. If you take action you will never know if what you did worked. If you don't and something happens you sure as hell will know it didn't.

Bottom line - we are all responsible for our own actions.

Finally - and believe me on this - there is a possibility that if something happened then he might say "if you were worried then why didn't you say something?" Denial and deflection is common.

Sorry to go on - I normally am flippant on just about everything I post - but some things preclude such.

Good luck.

Paul.
 

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There has to be a solution which doesn't involve the drastic action of involving the Police. Gone are the days when you could ask a friendly Bobby to "have a word"...If I report him to the Police he'll get caught, lose his licence, lose his job, lose his money, lose his house etc, etc.

It's a huge step to take and I'm not doing, regardless of anything anyone says on here. I acknowledge that I am on the wrong side of the fence in an absolute sense, but there you go.
 

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No, he's not. He has no duty of care to prevent others from doing this.
Yes he is....different from being an accomplice in a crime...

Knowledge of the crime
To be convicted of an accessory charge, the accused must generally be proved to have had actual knowledge that a crime was going to be, or had been, committed. Furthermore, there must be proof that the accessory knew that his or her action, or inaction, was helping the criminals commit the crime, or evade detection, or escape. A person who unknowingly houses a person who has just committed a crime, for instance, may not be charged with an accessory offense because they did not have knowledge of the crime.


Its not likely that anyone would ever be charged accept extrodinary circumstances, but it does happen.

Will: report him now - for your own peace of mind, although I understand your angst on this....


Chris
 

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There has to be a solution which doesn't involve the drastic action of involving the Police. Gone are the days when you could ask a friendly Bobby to "have a word"...If I report him to the Police he'll get caught, lose his licence, lose his job, lose his money, lose his house etc, etc.

It's a huge step to take and I'm not doing, regardless of anything anyone says on here. I acknowledge that I am on the wrong side of the fence in an absolute sense, but there you go.
You are totally wrong on this. If he is, as you say, an alcoholic, he has no regard for you, for his partner or for anyone else. As someone said above, lets hope he hits a tree first.

If you don't want to report him ask someone else to. If you want my phone number I will let you know, you can give me a call the next time he is out and about and I will call the local station for you. A friendly word with a Bobby will not help.

All the house, job, knees, boat stuff is a personal tradgedy but it shouldn't be allowed to become a tragedy for someone else.

You really know you would be right to call him in.
 
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Yes he is....different from being an accomplice in a crime...

Knowledge of the crime
To be convicted of an accessory charge, the accused must generally be proved to have had actual knowledge that a crime was going to be, or had been, committed. Furthermore, there must be proof that the accessory knew that his or her action, or inaction, was helping the criminals commit the crime, or evade detection, or escape. A person who unknowingly houses a person who has just committed a crime, for instance, may not be charged with an accessory offense because they did not have knowledge of the crime.


Its not likely that anyone would ever be charged accept extrodinary circumstances, but it does happen.

Will: report him now - for your own peace of mind, although I understand your angst on this....


Chris
That would be interpreted by a judge who would note that even calling the police there and then would not have prevented the offence being committed. Thus, there has been no inaction that led to this offence being committed. Indeed, no action other than physical restraint, itself probably constituing an assault, could have prevented the offence. He would also note that Will had tried to persuade this individual of the error of his ways on many occasions.

Plus, of course, everybody present at that party was in the same position. The only one in any sort of potentially difficult legal position would be the partner, who was the only one who knew in advance that he intended to drive. Will has not committed a criminal offence.
 

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Right or wrong, I know I wouldn't say anything.
Ditto, and I do not believe I have any obligation in a legal sense to report him.

As for delegating the task to a third party, Big Red, you really must be joking - that would be the true action of a coward. If any reporting is to be done then it would be by me.

What I have is a moral dilemna - if and when it happens again I will forcefully take his keys off him or insist his partner drives. If they both refuse, then I can do no more - although if there are other friends present I would hope and assume they would provide moral back-up for me.

I do not intend to post further on this thread. My apologies to the thread starter for having unwittingly hi-jacked it.
 

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Ditto, and I do not believe I have any obligation in a legal sense to report him.

As for delegating the task to a third party, Big Red, you really must be joking - that would be the true action of a coward. If any reporting is to be done then it would be by me.

What I have is a moral dilemna - if and when it happens again I will forcefully take his keys off him or insist his partner drives. If they both refuse, then I can do no more - although if there are other friends present I would hope and assume they would provide moral back-up for me.

I do not intend to post further on this thread. My apologies to the thread starter for having unwittingly hi-jacked it.
OK, a suggestion that you maybe can use.

The next time he arrives tell him he can't come in unless he gives you his keys and allows you to order a taxi for him when he goes.

If he doesn't agree don't let him in. This demonstrates your resolve and stops the ensuing worry.
 

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Will,

you should realise that by not stopping your friend from DUI, should he be caught, things are going to get worse for him. Should he get caught after he's piled into another car/house/person/child he's going to loose his licence, a lot of money, and could end up behind bars depending on he shunt.
Happened to a good friend of mine (before I knew him) and two years without a licence is not good for work, life or home relationships!

You've got a loose/loose situation weather you report him- help him- or leave him. I think you'd be better off considering what is preferable.
It seems to me you're assuming the options are intervien or wait till he sees sence, but the latter may never happen or only be triggered by something rather unpleasant.
 
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His life will of course improve if he kills a cyclist when drunk, then he will feel even more guilty...however I don't envy you one bit Will

He's gone now, but we have had an alcoholic doing gas work dangerously in our work force for years. The tenants know it..none have reported him..the workforce knows it....nobody has reported it, including me..the boss knows and has done nothing..and here is the nub. He is the bosses dad.

Now what do you do? All I ever did was take the boss aside and tell him privately the worst things I found..and they were duly covered up. I should have reported him to Corgi of course...and found a new job..of course...

When faced with these dilemmas we often avoid what we know we ought to do as its the line of least resistance in our lives. Nobody likes whistleblowers..just read the paper and see what happens to them!

Hope you can help sort him out Will.

AlfaLincs
 
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A sensitive and well-considered post AL :thumbs:: it puts the moral dilemma issue very clearly.

Thankfully I've never been in this position. Good wishes to you Will in however you decide to proceed.
 
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I love the title, gets me going .
It sort of follows on from what I posted on Al's thread women on page 8.

Well the mother of my 2 son's ,one pictured on Al's thread who was beaten by the step father & stood by him, has been squeezing my wife & me since 1994 through the CSA .
My wife had to get 2 jobs while I just seemed to live at work so we could survive the CSA payments. Anyway
it turns out that these 2 lovely people have been cheating the benefit system for quite a few years & were caught out good & proper ,No it was not me ,only because had I done this my sons would never have forgiven me & they are worth more to me than that.
Well on Monday they will have there Just deserts & I will be going along to watch, yes I feel smug & why not?!!have look

To think my wife & my daughter have had to go without for years because we were paying the CSA hundreds oh ££'s per month & all the time they were cashing in??

A Bristol husband and wife who dishonestly claimed £56,000 in benefits have been given 12-month suspended prison sentences. Sonia and Richard Nicholls had been landlord and tenant when they...
 
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