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Discussion Starter #61
RWD is good? The only way I’d have it is like my Stelvio which drives the front wheels when needed. I’ve seen too many BMWs facing the wrong way on cold days with their driver standing next to them on their mobile phone.
 

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Depends where you live... Here in the midlands I can count on one hand the times the roads have been even remotely icy this winter. Even winter tyres would be a waste of money.


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Never had any problems with any of the rear wheel drive cars I've owned, and there's been quite a few - powerful and not so powerful. I'm glad I learnt to drive in one.. We've had some snowy winters here in the north west, but they are the exception rather than the norm.
Good to see Alfa returning to RWD after all these years.
 

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RWD is good? The only way I’d have it is like my Stelvio which drives the front wheels when needed. I’ve seen too many BMWs facing the wrong way on cold days with their driver standing next to them on their mobile phone.
Rear wheels for driving....front for steering….anything else….is for shopping! My 159 is the first FWD drive ive had in years (last was Mk2 Golf GTI)….and is the only thing I would change if it was practical to do so. If you have even a modicum of driver skill a RWD car is far and away a dynamically superior car. If you have no skills or lift of the throttle whenever a car starts to slide or have little finesse on the throttle....then stick to FWD...as its inherently its safer for the "hard of thinking"!!
 

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Rear wheels for driving....front for steering….anything else….is for shopping! My 159 is the first FWD drive ive had in years (last was Mk2 Golf GTI)….and is the only thing I would change if it was practical to do so. If you have even a modicum of driver skill a RWD car is far and away a dynamically superior car. If you have no skills or lift of the throttle whenever a car starts to slide or have little finesse on the throttle....then stick to FWD...as its inherently its safer for the "hard of thinking"!!
I'd agree with much of that. RWD requires a different driving technique but is inherently more stable. FWD cars understeer at the limit and can be made to do so gradually and progessively, making them very easy to drive near the limits of adhesion, but problematic and unstable when those limits are breached. In contrast, RWD gives higher limits and much more scope to "engineer in" an inherently more neutral (or perhaps slightly over-steering) stance.

I think the widespread distrust of RWD road cars can be attributed to a fairly small number of RWD performance cars which - arguably have excessive rear spring rates and inadequate rear roll bar rates . This set-up gives more ultimate grip but also a more abrupt breakaway at the limits of adhesion - an approach that's suited to a race car but is too unforgiving for a road car piloted perhaps by a fearless amateur driver. Porsche 911 and some big BMWs are typical examples.

In contrast, my RWD Alfetta saloon is totally progressive and predicatable and can be steered on the throttle with some precision. In the 1970s Alfa Corse (the works race team) ran their Alfetta race cars with the rear roll bar removed, which increased grip but made the car more 'snappy' at the limit: fine for a professional driver on a race track, but less good on an icy 'B' road at night!
 

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Another reason why many rear wheel drive cars are seen as rubbish in the snow is that many of them have staggered tyre setups with very wide tyres at the back.

Down south here snow is a rarity anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
You don’t need snow for 3 series drivers to lose it on a sweeping curve, based on what I’ve seen on very cold mornings in Essex.
 

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You don’t need snow for 3 series drivers to lose it on a sweeping curve, based on what I’ve seen on very cold mornings in Essex.
Agreed. An incompetent driver can make a mess of whatever they're driving - from a supremely capable supercar to a ratty Vauxhall Corsa. Most modern cars are far more capable than most modern drivers, but it's still fashionable for the driver to blame the car is something goes wrong. There are loads of car insurance claim forms that say things like...

"How did the accident happen?
I was driving along normally when the car suddenly lost control, skidded, and then hit a tree."

[This thread was supposed to be about the discontinuation of the Giulietta, but we've hijacked it and turned it into a FWD versus RWD discussion! Sorry... :oops:]
 

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Another reason why many rear wheel drive cars are seen as rubbish in the snow is that many of them have staggered tyre setups with very wide tyres at the back.

Down south here snow is a rarity anyway.
Quite so. Wider tyres on the (powered) rear wheels are great in the dry but can get very 'snappy' in slippery conditions. I once drove a friend's Porsche 911 in a deserted and icy supermarket car park, and those big wide tyres certainly didn't make it any easier...!
 

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I find they just roll over the snow rather than cutting into it. They are rubbish in the mud too as I recently found out.
 

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Just had our 2yo G written off from a hail storm... Foolishly we had market value on it - paid $35K for it, pampered condition, 29,000kms on the clock and got 22K as the payout. Less $850 excess... Can I swear on this forum?

Found a brand new 2018 build one (they are slow sellers in Oz...) for 30K, just couldn’t imagine not replacing it. Have suggested a new Mazda 3 as a much better value and more sensible option, but she just wants her G back. They have this effect on owners.
 

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Discussion Starter #74
From clubalfa.it (via google translation)
“Sales down 41% in Europe for the Giulietta
Alfa Romeo Giulietta's results in Europe during 2019 have been very disappointing. The C segment of the Italian brand, in fact, recorded a total of 15,690 units sold, as confirmed by the data released by Carsalesbase. Compared to 2018 data, Giulietta's sales in Europe registered a real collapse.

In fact, for the C segment of the Italian brand, 2019 closed with a percentage drop of -41% compared to the data collected the previous year when deliveries exceeded 26 thousand. In the space of 12 months, therefore, the Giulietta has lost over 10,000 units sold, recording the lowest sales result of its ten-year career.”
 

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Discussion Starter #75

Recall that the Giulietta has been on the market since 2010 and reached its peak in its first "full" year of marketing, 2011, with a total of over 78 thousand units sold in Europe. Subsequently, there was a sharp drop in 2012 (the year in which the market crisis in Europe began to be particularly intense) with 60 thousand units sold.

In the following years, from 2013 to 2016, between special series and restyling, the Giulietta maintained volumes between 40 and 45 thousand units per year and then started a further decline in 2017, closed with 32 thousand units sold in Europe, repeated in 2018 with 26 thousand units. The 2019 data therefore definitively certify the drop in the C segment of the Italian brand, now one step away from the definitive exit from the market.

Alfa Romeo Giulietta: will there be a new generation in the future?
Once the production of the Alfa Romeo Giulietta ends (probably in the spring), the assembly line at the Cassino plant will be dismantled to make room for the new line on which FCA will make the Maserati D-SUV, the third model (developed on the basis of Giorgio) scheduled for the Lazio plant whose debut is scheduled for 2021.”
 

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From clubalfa.it (via google translation)
“Sales down 41% in Europe for the Giulietta
Alfa Romeo Giulietta's results in Europe during 2019 have been very disappointing. The C segment of the Italian brand, in fact, recorded a total of 15,690 units sold, as confirmed by the data released by Carsalesbase. Compared to 2018 data, Giulietta's sales in Europe registered a real collapse.

In fact, for the C segment of the Italian brand, 2019 closed with a percentage drop of -41% compared to the data collected the previous year when deliveries exceeded 26 thousand. In the space of 12 months, therefore, the Giulietta has lost over 10,000 units sold, recording the lowest sales result of its ten-year career.”
What did they expect after 10 years and not much in the way of development? I appreciate it’s virtues, especially the QV/Veloce and Multiair but those have been cut from our market in Oz. I am prepared to act as a consultant to help Alfas’ sales for a very reasonable fee but apparently they don’t take advice. They can lose sales quite nicely on their own, thank you very much.
 

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I love the style of the Mito but for some reason the Giulietta has never appealed to me. I love small details but not the whole. I've tried to like it and I'm sure it's great top drive but it's just... meh...

The 159 is stunning, the GT is beautiful. I finally 'get' the 916 GTV and Spider, but apart from the 4 and 8c , the newer stuff just isn't exciting enough imho. The Stelvio is an SUV (god, I hate that term..) so that's out. I love REAL 4x4s, of which nobody really makes any more apart from the odd decent pickup, but crossover stuff just seems pointless to me personally. I appreciate it's the answer for some, but just not me. The Giulia is ok but still not that special to my eyes. Even the alleged GTV based on it is restrained. One of y'all suggested it looks like a 3 series. The front is great but yes, the side and rear is definitely dull enough to make that mistake.

A saloon, a hatchback, and an SUV? Yawn.... and they wonder while it's failing?

Another thing I've noticed is that all the car park Alfa fans that wander over to admire all skulk off after back to their German cars. Alfa still has a massive reliability reputation that I guess is not going anywhere fast and it might simply be too late. WE know they're good and reliable but Joe Public still believes the old tales.
 

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I love the style of the Mito but for some reason the Giulietta has never appealed to me. I love small details but not the whole. I've tried to like it and I'm sure it's great top drive but it's just... meh...

I am the other way around, the MiTo never looked right to me, being too tall and narrow, and whilst the Giulietta can look a bit awkward from some angles it is a nice shape overall.

Here are my hopes for the Giulietta replacement if we get one.

Great styling, more steering feel than the current one, better quality interior. If reliabiulity is as good as the current one that would be great.

In reality it doesn't matter to most whether it is FWD or RWD, but RWD would be a good selling point now that the BMW 1 series is now FWD.
 

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Even better if they make a coupe as well as a convertible on the platform. If they must use a froggy platform then PLEASE make it drive and steer like an Alfa..
 

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Discussion Starter #80
Now that would finish off Alfa for good!
The number of coupes and convertibles sold can be counted on the fingers of one foot; the 3 door is dead. There may be a market for them third hand but look at what’s happened of late.
 
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