Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 51 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,515 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
All parents will be familiar with the concept of “accidents”. There is an enormous crash in the next door room, and a small child is staring at the shattered remains of something expensive on the floor. “How did it happen?” you ask. “I don’t know” wails the child, “I didn’t touch it, I only looked at it, it just fell off the mantlepiece on its own”. The parent is left to work out whether their child does have telekinesis as a superpower, or is just a liar. Unfortunately, we don’t live in the Marvel universe, and most small children are expert liars when it comes to the difference between “looking with your eyes” and “looking with your hands”.

I’m taking the same approach when asked about this, which arrived outside the house last night:



“How did it get here?” says Mrs rxe. That one was easy – “on a lorry dear, you saw it being delivered”. I get the hard stare. “Why is it here?”. A harder question. “I don’t know, it just, er fell off a forum page, I didn’t mean to buy it, it was er, an accident”. I am also a liar…. It sort of was an accident. It is this car: https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-gtv-andamp-916-spider/1172405-does-anyone-want-my-gtv.html and I was hoping that the eBay auction would be successful and my irrational urge to buy a GTV would be contained. But it was not to be. I made an offer, and it was accepted. An outfit called Anyvan delivered it from Sheffield to Berkshire remarkably efficiently and with zero hassle for about the same as the petrol would have cost to drive the Land Rover to fetch it with a trailer (highly recommended).

So what have we got? A 3 litre GTV with 101K on the clock and an MOT fail list about as long as Hannibal Lecter’s rap sheet. Most concerning is corrosion, but there is a fair bit of mechanical stuff as well. Oh, and the cambelt, which is pretty much in the category of “do not pass GO, do not start the car, prepare to pay out loads of money”. I’ll take some photos of it, because it is a text book case of how to undo one bolt and prevent a load of future damage.

First things first – get it moved. The battery was flatter than a wafer thin mint, but the mighty CTEK got it charging after about 10 minutes, and it managed to swallow 50 Ah, so all is not lost.



The engine starts easily, something is missing in the downpipe department because the noise is excessive. Clutch works, brakes are absent – this is not a surprise, the MOT man found that as well. All the electrics work, lights are fine, interior is intact. There are more keys than I can shake a stick at, and the codes are all present. The radio (original) works. Awesome.

With it out of the way, time for a poke underneath. It was getting dark so no photos yet. There are some tidy holes in the floor pan, and there is jacking or grounding damage to the front of the sills. The sill seems structurally OK, but I will need to get the covers off to have a proper look. There is crustiness in the boot floor. Other than that, it’s not bad – feels like an interior strip out and 2 days of fabricating and welding at this stage.

The noise from the exhaust is not coming from the usual flexis. Its either the downpipe to manifold join (simple), or the manifold itself (engine out) – I wasn’t getting under a jacked car to have a proper look.

The first job will be the belt – I don’t want to start it many more times on this belt. I need to work out whether the engine is coming out to do the brake lines properly, or whether it is the rubber bits that have broken. It will either be a quick cambelt in car job, or fish the engine out and do a proper front end overhaul. Actually the first job is to finish the cambelt on the 12V 155, which has turned into a brutal slugfest of “man vs. 25 years of corrosion”.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,992 Posts
Where do you find the time? You really need to move north. Bolton would be good as I have a long list for you.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
45,988 Posts
Nice, looks like a CF2? Is it a 5 speed or a 6? Should be a 6 if it has aero spoiler and 17" teledials but you never know. Any idea if it has the original DMF still or has a solid flywheel been fitted?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,515 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Er, it’s blue. I have no clue about anything else at this stage! I haven’t got it out of first, or needed reverse, so no idea on the number of gears. It’s probably on its original clutch, I can’t see any clutch related paperwork in the file. I assume that if it has a lifty-up thingy on the gear leaver it will be a 6-er?

As to the time, well the rest of the fleet is behaving itself, I’ve fixed my brother in laws 147, so the only problem child is the 155 V6 that should be done in a week or two. This comes next!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
Cool little car, nice to see someone save it. :)

By the way, did you ever get the FL steering wheel off of your donor 166? Would suit my car well you know ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,515 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
The 12V cambelt change has thwarted me because I haven't done tappet shims for ages, and my feeler gauges are too crude. The inlets need to be 0.475mm - 0.500mm and I can only measure in 0.05 increments - not really good enough, but I have determined the source of the ticking may be the inlet on Number 4 which is miles out. Amazon will deliver something more accurate tomorrow, so I can look at the GTV. It's a 6 speed!

First stop was to work out what needed fixing with the brake pipes - so get her up in the air and NSF wheel off. Bloody hell:



Whoever passed that in 2018 needs to go to Specsavers. The 2019 guy seemed to spray red paint on bits he doesn't like. It's not a catastrophe and will fix fairly easily, as long as all the suspension is out of the way.

The good news is that the brake pipe is the link section on the caliper:



While we're on the subject of corrosion, here is the edge of the NS floor pan - will need replacing:



And bits are missing towards the front:



It look horrific, but it is simply a question of setting a decent edge on the sill and welding repair sections in - with the plastic covers on the outside, nothing will be visible. The outer sills are actually fine - this is a shot through the hole, and you can see nicely primered, not corroded outer sill:



Usual drain hole issues:



The exhaust is nice though - will be good to hear that revving properly. I'm still thinking 2, maybe three days of fabrication and welding.

Right, here is a cambelt lesson. If you are unsure of the provenance of your cambelt, undo this nut and pull the cover back:



This is a cam pulley - and you can see the surface is shiny at the edge. This is the one instance on Alfas where rust is good. There should be a few mm at the edge of the wheel that is rusty, because the belt never goes over it. This wheel is shiny because the belt is wandering.



And here is a video of a wandering belt:

http://forumphotos.s3.amazonaws.com/916GTV/FILM-001.MOV

Having stopped the engine, the belt has settled right at the edge - and you can see the belt has been rubbing against the covers. This is because the tensioner is knackered and throwing it off course. Eventually the belt shreds to nothing and just snaps.



So the plan is to change the belt in situ, rather than fish the engine out. The blowing exhaust seems to be a missing gasket:



Done some important jobs. Firstly fitted the badge:



And replace the cracked (and leaking) oil cap with a nice ally one from EB Spares:



By the way, did you ever get the FL steering wheel off of your donor 166? Would suit my car well you know
I had a go this afternoon, and I can't even get the air bag off! I assume they are 4mm allen bolts holding it on, but one has been butchered, and the other one is solid. Someone has been in there before. I might be able to drill them out, not sure if I can do that without wrecking the back of the wheel.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
45,988 Posts
Looks like it has some fancy stainless, tig welded downpipes there. Any ideas what they are? We've never made anything for CF2 GTV V6s apart from the cat-back system, and there aren't a lot of other manufacturers who tig weld.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Nice, looks like a CF2? Is it a 5 speed or a 6? Should be a 6 if it has aero spoiler and 17" teledials but you never know. Any idea if it has the original DMF still or has a solid flywheel been fitted?
6 speed, which AFAIK all phase 2s were. It's all original apart from the exhaust (as noted elsewhere) and some third-party back suspension bits. (Anyone who's had one of these will know they *eat* rear suspension.)

The exhaust came from a company called something like Stainless Exhausts, who I think were at Alfreton. (It's some years ago now and all the paperwork went with the car.) It originally had one box, which maybe gave it a bit more poke, but was too loud for my taste, so I had them change it to something very similar to original spec.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,515 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Once we have a decision to do the cambelt in situ, then we know what to do. Here is the under bonnet view mid morning:







And by lunch time it had changed a bit.







I do like the older V6s – you can get all the wiring off and out of the way reasonably easily. I’ve taken the inlet pipes off to clean them properly. There are initial signs of cambelt damage, firstly a lot rubber dust on the hex bolt holding the top of the front cam cover in place:







The rear bank plugs seem to be significantly older than the front bank. Hmmmm.







The only seized bit so far was an M6 bolt that had been cross threaded into the cam cover. Thankfully it sheared, so I can extract and depending on the state of the damage, I will put a Timesert in.







Starting underneath, we see the usual knackered CV boot. Not worried about that at the moment:







Aux belt is knackered:







One of the pulleys needed a significant level of brutality to extract the bolt. Thankfully this was on the removable plate at the top, rather than the really hard one. Someone had reused a somewhat knackered 8.8 grade bolt – they will be replaced by 12.9s. They’d also reused a damaged bolt to hold the tensioner which took a bit of extraction.







There was a lot of rubber dust in the cam covers, along with shiny bits where the belt was rubbing:









And the belt itself had a rather spectacular tear in it:







I suspect this was very close to failure indeed.



Anyway the current score is everything removed, other than:



The main crank pulley, the nut is off, but the pulley is locked on solid. Never had this before, a 3 legged puller has been ordered. I suspect the pulley will die during extraction, so a new one has been ordered as well.
The water pump is out, but 3 bolts sheared, which is not a bad score. They’ve had a load of penetrant thrown at them, and will have heat + penetrant during the week. There’s enough left to grab with a pair of grips, so they should come out OK.


I had a little bit of time at the end of the day, so I thought I’d get the air filter out. Up until this point I thought the car had been logically designed, and was easier to work on than a 156. Whoever designed this filter holder clearly looked at the (hard) 156 one, and thought that it wasn’t enough of a challenge. I wasn’t the first person to think this, as the nuts on top clearly had not been undone in the last decade – and the filter was filthy. All removed now, and will be replaced with stainless wing nuts.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
45,988 Posts
Doublecheck the new filter when it arrives, as a lot of places list the incorrect filter for the 3.0, it is longer than the 2.0 one. If you fit the 2.0 one it leaves a gap at the top for air to bypass the filter. As far as I am aware the only people making the 3.0 filter anymore are Wix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,515 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Ah, I'd assumed it was the same thing as a 156V6 filter. The filthy one in the case is identical to a 156 item. Maybe it is the wrong thing, I'll have a look when I get round to cleaning it up.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
45,988 Posts
In that case I'd be tempted to put a MAF in it as well if its been getting unfiltered air, AFAIK GTV 3.0 CF2 is the same MAF as 156/GTV TS CF2, just in a bigger housing, so easy and cheap to acquire. S4P have GTV 3.0 air filters in, £25 a throw but they are different to everything else.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,692 Posts
Good luck you are a brave man RXE, I was feeling sorry for the previous owner with all the what's it worth chat,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,088 Posts
Once we have a decision to do the cambelt in situ, then we know what to do. Here is the under bonnet view mid morning:

The only seized bit so far was an M6 bolt that had been cross threaded into the cam cover. Thankfully it sheared, so I can extract and depending on the state of the damage, I will put a Timesert in.
I am impressed that you have taken this on and the work that you have done so far.

What is a Timesert?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,659 Posts
Nice, and definitely a worthy addition to the fleet - tbh despite the immo / ecu problems I had and the limited space I much preferred my gtv to the 156 gta - the handling's excellent on a well sorted example :)

Chances are the rust damage at the front of the sills will be down to grounding - I remember back in the early 2000s when I was looking almost every gtv I came across had grounding damage there or on the front chassis rails; speedbumps were the gtv's natural predator...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,515 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
More progress. Dan's recommended puller showed up, and it is a work of art. The best feature is the locking legs that properly grip onto the workpiece



45 seconds later, it was all over. Just a dry, corroded interference fit.



The sheared studs on the water pump have yielded to heat and penetrating fluid:




At this stage, the whole of the front of the engine is "empty" - there's quite a lot of space in there with everything out of the way. Releasing the engine mount is also a good idea - you can get about 5 inches of vertical movement....




Comparison of the cam belts:




Retiming was fun - I had it all lined up, then the tensioner sprung free as I was turning it. It was a very careful 15 minutes working out where pistons were and hand turning cams to suit. All lined up now and mostly back together. I've run out of M6 and M8 stainless bolts so these have been ordered.

New thermostat - the old one was partially open when cold - you can check this by disconnecting the radiator top hose and blowing down it with the coolant drained - if you can blow, then replace the thermostat:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,659 Posts
Check the centre of the pulley when you get it on the bench, the pulley on my archaeological dig / 12v rebuild was equally stuck, and when I got it off I noticed radial hairline cracks running out from the boss, presumably either from where the rust had applied too much outward pressure on it, or maybe purely from the mechanical pressure required to pull it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,992 Posts
Just in time with that belt by the looks of it.

I fondly remember spending half a day changing the air filter on my 156 including freeing seized bolts, making replacements for the broken brackets and generally fannying about. The one I removed in 2008 looked like the original 2001 part.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
45,988 Posts
Just in time with that belt by the looks of it.

I fondly remember spending half a day changing the air filter on my 156 including freeing seized bolts, making replacements for the broken brackets and generally fannying about. The one I removed in 2008 looked like the original 2001 part.
No surprise. Most annoying thing is if you change it every year, it never gets seized. It only gets seized because it gets ignored.
 
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
Top