Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The ten biggest money losers in European carmaking. (pdf)

Surprise: The FIAT Stilo lost more money than the Bugatti Veyron or the VW Phaeton.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,273 Posts
The ten biggest money losers in European carmaking. (pdf)

Surprise: The FIAT Stilo lost more money than the Bugatti Veyron or the VW Phaeton.
Surprised the lancia thesis didn't make the list. An independent chassis that only sold 16000 must have cost them and fiat a fortune
 
G

·
Thats an interesting read with a rather depressing subtext namely that in the main market and economic forces drive a need to supply homogenous products in the mainstream automotive industry.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,631 Posts
Thats an interesting read with a rather depressing subtext namely that in the main market and economic forces drive a need to supply homogenous products in the mainstream automotive industry.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
Yes and I suppose the big challenge for the industry is now to use same platforms etc.. but make them appear different enough for all the models it produces with those parts
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Surprised the lancia thesis didn't make the list. An independent chassis that only sold 16000 must have cost them and fiat a fortune
It's all down to how many Lancia had projected to sell in the first place.. also, a lot of the drivetrain parts for Thesis came from within the group, and it's possible that some of the developments could have been "sold on" to other members of the group to keep the true cost down.

Looking at the list, an odd thought struck me: perhaps the Phaeton should have been a SEAT. "Opulence" and "Volkswagen" don't go together very well, but the idea was a better fit with how SEAT were presenting themselves at the time (the "emotional" bit of VAG). Of course, better yet was to leave Audi to do the big executives, but Phaeton was Piëch's idea, and thus untouchable.

Also, I had an A-Class. The problem wasn't concerns about the Elk Test, but what MB did follwoing that. ESP was fitted as standard, and the suspension stiffened to prevent roll. The cost of the ESP meant that the interior was further downgraded, and the car's un-Mercedes-like ride comfort shook it apart in no time.

@RSK, generally, yes, the lesson is "don't try", but the Stilo is an interesting counterpoint. That was as safe and conservative as an Astra or Golf and it was also a pretty reliable car. According to my local FIAT dealers at the time, pretty much all of the cars they sold stayed out on the road - the problem was selling them.

For people looking for general transport, it was the same price as the Astra, and couldn't offer anything that that car didn't. For FIAT's "fun to drive" market, Stilo was also a bit heavy and had the very first all-electric steering system which removed a lot of steering feel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,273 Posts
The predecessor, the kappa sold over 100,000 and it shares it's platform with the 166.
So I'd be guessing the thesis cost fiat/lancia a lot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,080 Posts
As I understand it the main purpose of the Phaeton was to get a lot of the components, particularly the W12 engine, used in Bentleys into production & into use by customers before committing to Bentley production - a few engine failures would have been a disaster for Bentley's image, much less so for VW's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
There are cheaper and more effective ways of doing that, though. Build a hundred mules, pay people to drive them around the world. They could have offered the engine in the A8. Actually, giving customers a new Bentley if their engine died would have been cheaper than the Phaeton project.

It was Piëch's vanity project, nothing more or less.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37,874 Posts
As I understand it the main purpose of the Phaeton was to get a lot of the components, particularly the W12 engine, used in Bentleys into production & into use by customers before committing to Bentley production - a few engine failures would have been a disaster for Bentley's image, much less so for VW's.
I always thought this too. You can then amortise costs on the tooling to offset VW profits and supply them internally at a good price to your British luxury maker. Real world testing and a halo model for VW. The Veyron is basically a prototype with parts from the racing industry , much of it in Southern England .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37,874 Posts
Only the X-Type is a surprise on that list.
They had to buy Mondeo bits from Ford . Could have included intellectual property at whatever price. The main issue must have been the giving away of the all wheel drive system . Just to avoid being described as fwd.
 
G

·
They had to buy Mondeo bits from Ford . Could have included intellectual property at whatever price. The main issue must have been the giving away of the all wheel drive system . Just to avoid being described as fwd.
Which they later backtracked on, but far far too late.

I always thought the X Type was a brilliant idea poorly executed.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,044 Posts
I never really liked the Stilo myself. They styling just wasn't right.

In 3 door form it ok in a slightly bland way but in 5 door form it looked ghastly.


Never liked either the X type or the Smart either, but the Renault megane did have some quirky appeal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,688 Posts
The X type is an evil abomination. Anybody who owns one, just ask em how their Mondeo is...That really p*sses them off...(only an opinion of course).
Indeed but you can say to Ferrari owners, you own a Fiat, Porsche owners a Beetle and Lamborghini a tractor. The list is probably longer.

I know a few with or whom had X type's and they wouldn't bat an eyelid at it :p
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top