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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

Hopefully someone can shed some light on this. Have a tappety noise when car has warmed up. It comes from one end of the engine. It appears to be coming from under the rocker cover. A distict tapping sound. It sounds like a tappett. However when looking at other posts on here people have suggested it may be an injector. What is the best way to tell? Is there an obvious differance between the sound of the two components when failing or needing adjustment. Have noticed people use additives. I was thinking of flushing the engine out with a cleaner and using new oil. Also was thinking of using an additive in the fuel as other people suggested. However I just get the feeling the noise is quite loud. Could it be a worn or "sticking" rocke and if so how easy are they to change?

Thanks.
 

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YOu can do the old long handled screwdriver trick (one end to the injector, the handle to your ear, should sound be ticking if defective)
 

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It could be failing / failed rocker.
Injectors don't tend to be to loud where as a rocker is quite loud.

The only way to tell if its a rocker is to take the top off and hope you don't see this

IMG_1312.jpg

or this

IMG_1216.jpg

Mines done it twice now. The first time the centre pin came out of the rocker and the second time was because the key failed on the crank cam belt pulley.

You would hear this using the screwdriver trick but to be honest a quick rev and you'll hear it anyway.
 

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I would worry about a loud tappety noise, particularly one that comes from a specific part of the engine.

However, mine used to sound very tappety towards the end of the warm-up period from new and I was advised it was the injectors. It was a disappointing and unrefined noise to get from a car of the price. It was never cured and was one of the factors in me getting rid of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I would add the engine appears to be runing smoothly apart from noise. In fact I would add when the bonnet is down the noise is not that noticable. I have a feeling most people would not notice. It is only that the plastic cover that sits on the engine has a tendancy to vibrate that I noticed the problem. It accelerates fine.

I did use the srcewdriver trick today prior to writing. However I did not place it on or near the injector, which I will do tomorrow, but on the cam/rocker cover from which the noise appeared to be coming. I moved it about and it was loud just under the rocker/cam cover. I fear it is something to do with the rocker/tappet. However I am not familar with injectors. What I find strange is when cold it is not evident. Or as it warms up every other tappet settles down apart from one. I will have another look tomorrow.

@Coxey1.. How much effort and time does it take to get to the point you have with the cylinder head. To take a look would mean removing the cover. However I guess to change the rocker, if that is the problem, requires a bit more knowledge. I have rebuilt 4 cylinder 8v motorcycle engines from the crankcases up, including regrinding the valves, but we are talking along time ago and have never worked on diesal engines. Apart from changing a battary I have not got my hands dirty on a car for 10 years plus. Are the cam belts easy to re aline. If the cam had to be removed to change a rocker. I am probably getting ahead of myself here but I kind of know that the cover is going to come off.

I am going to ask. I need the car for Christmas as need to see the kids. I need to cover 200 miles before I will have a chance to look. A risk I know. Such is life. Wrecked engine or christmas with kids or rental car. What excuse will I have for my ex when I turn up in the rental.
 

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My car has a slightly noisy injector which I thought was a tappet when I first had it.

Solved it by using 2 stroke oil in the fuel and its lovely and quiet.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
@ jon156voloce... Should I just stick an additive in the car and run with it. I will have ago with the screwdriver tomorrow and if the noise is not conclusive I will add an additive to the fuel and see where we go from there.

By the way thanks for your replies.
 

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You could try some millers or just some 2 stroke oil, about 250ml to £30 of fuel. The cheap mineral oil is better
If your noise goes then you know where your problem is
 

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@Coxey1.. How much effort and time does it take to get to the point you have with the cylinder head. To take a look would mean removing the cover. However I guess to change the rocker, if that is the problem, requires a bit more knowledge. I have rebuilt 4 cylinder 8v motorcycle engines from the crankcases up, including regrinding the valves, but we are talking along time ago and have never worked on diesal engines. Apart from changing a battary I have not got my hands dirty on a car for 10 years plus. Are the cam belts easy to re aline. If the cam had to be removed to change a rocker. I am probably getting ahead of myself here but I kind of know that the cover is going to come off.

I am going to ask. I need the car for Christmas as need to see the kids. I need to cover 200 miles before I will have a chance to look. A risk I know. Such is life. Wrecked engine or christmas with kids or rental car. What excuse will I have for my ex when I turn up in the rental.
Its not the quickest of jobs as it requires taking the cam belt off and pulling the injectors out. I'm well practised at it now and my injectors come out by hand. the cams come off with the rocker cover but to put it all back together you need timing tools to lock the cams and the crank.

To strip mine down now is a couple of hours and the same to put it back together. I would advise not doing it if yourself if you have any doubts or no timing tools. If the cams do come off you may as well do the cam belt, tensioners and water pump too. If it is a rocker I would advise that you change them all, they are about £9-£14 each for the rocker and the gasket is abut £30.

If it is a rocker and it fails they have a tendency to throw the needle roller bearing out in to the sump and there is 15 needle rollers in each rocker. That means taking the sump off to find them all , that also requires dropping the sub frame on a 2.4. Not sure if you can get the sump off through the sub frame on a 1.9.

I really hope it is just a noisy injector in your case. If you use the 2 stoke oil in the fuel make sure its the low ash version, if it then goes quieter as said above you know where your issue is.
 

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I may be wrong, but I would have expected a broken rocker or valve spring to make a significant rattle at all engine speeds and temperatures? And also there would be some effect on engine performance?

It sounds to me more like a noisy injector which is irritating but at least won't "grenade" the engine. Perhaps you could let someone else have a listen to it before your 200 mile journey? Definitely worth a shot of two-stroke oil as a first measure. I also used Shell V-Power fuel quite frequently because I was told it had an added lubricant for the injectors which seemed to help.
 

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I may be wrong, but I would have expected a broken rocker or valve spring to make a significant rattle at all engine speeds and temperatures? And also there would be some effect on engine performance?

It sounds to me more like a noisy injector which is irritating but at least won't "grenade" the engine. Perhaps you could let someone else have a listen to it before your 200 mile journey? Definitely worth a shot of two-stroke oil as a first measure. I also used Shell V-Power fuel quite frequently because I was told it had an added lubricant for the injectors which seemed to help.
It all depends how the rocker fails.

If the centre pin has come loose all the needle roller are set free and the outer race of the centre bearing drops and the lobes of the cam are pressing on the outer frame of the rocker.
See here,
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-and-946-spider/333455-noisey-tappets.html?highlight=noisey+tappets

The drop off on engine performance is not really that noticeable as the valve is still opening but not quite as far.

If they fail like the photo's I posted above of mine the oh yes there is a noticeable drop of in power, a total and absolute drop off in power !
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have been out and started the engine. Apart from the vibration from the plastic engine cover all seems well. There is no noise from under the cam cover or injectors. Using the screwdrive all the injectors sound the same. When placing the screwdrive on the cam cover no noise. When I done it yesterday it was really noticable. Now I know a bit more about injectors the noise might have been bleeding over and I have made the assumption it was a tapet based on my engine knowledge from many moons ago. I am going to take it on a run to halfords and pick up some two stroke oil or millers. It is a 30mile round trip.
 

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A sharp tapping is something my 1.9JTDm suffered from on occasion, that is until I made Millers part of its diet. I was told by the head tech at my dealer that it is the injector snapping shut. He ran a diesel cleaner through the system and cleared it, suggested Millers and I never had a problem after that.

If you are in West Sussex Monza Sport in Ashington is the best Alfa Romeo dealer in the world (maybe).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Oill change done with new filter. Millers in the tank for injectors. That bit went OK. The tappet/injector noise has now been side lined for a much more pressing problem. This is the lack of a sub frame under the car! Lots of deep, deep rust!!!!!!
 

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Oill change done with new filter. Millers in the tank for injectors. That bit went OK. The tappet/injector noise has now been side lined for a much more pressing problem. This is the lack of a sub frame under the car! Lots of deep, deep rust!!!!!!
That really isn't good! :( If its any consolation your car is not the only one afflicted, Alfa seem to have skimped on the paint on the subframe, never mind rustproofing.
 

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I wonder what the position is with regard to rust on the subframe and the 7 (?) year rust warranty Alfa Romeo give.
 
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