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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

Thought you might like to see these. I hope I have done this right and you can see the photos. I took my sump guard off about 2 months ago to do an oil change. I could not attach it back to car so have been driving about without it . This is now the state of the sub frame. It was bad when I took the sump guard off and now two months on it has now turned completly orange. I always intended to replace it and have a replacement that I am fitting tomorrow.


http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=312721&stc=1&d=1397497325
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=312729&stc=1&d=1397497325
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=312737&stc=1&d=1397497325
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=312745&stc=1&d=1397497325
 

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Much worse than mine which I treated and protected last year. Hope it has not got as bad as yours did in the intervening time...
 

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My godness, I do not see any similar in Russia.
Do you use some underride or not ???...
Do you get used salt subctense on the road by winter ???...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I would add my car is on a 2006 plate. So that is around 8 years old. I have also noticed some brackets holding the auxiliaries like the air filter housing and water bottle showing signs of corrosion. I will remove these while I am doing the sub frame and treat them. I have also noticed the rear sub frame is looking a little worse for wear. I have not got the time to do anything with it on this occasion but I have already decided it will come off at some point in the next couple of months.
 

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I would add my car is on a 2006 plate. So that is around 8 years old. I have also noticed some brackets holding the auxiliaries like the air filter housing and water bottle showing signs of corrosion. I will remove these while I am doing the sub frame and treat them. I have also noticed the rear sub frame is looking a little worse for wear. I have not got the time to do anything with it on this occasion but I have already decided it will come off at some point in the next couple of months.
Friendly speaking it might not happens in on day.
How often do you see the car this way per year ???...
 

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That is mine ( 2008, 70ткм ) by the way, for which I am blamed for...



How to put picture as is against link ???... Anybody knows ???... "facepalm"
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi,

You do not see it on a day to day bases which is the problem. The sump guard covers the frame. The oil change I done exposed it. Still on a plus note it does not look to hard to change and I have allowed a day to it. The car is already jack up ready to go first thing in morning. I have sourced a replacement which is second hand but in mint condition. I still had it shot blast and powder coated. The bits that are left exposed I will treat to stop stone chipping.
 

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Hi,

You do not see it on a day to day bases which is the problem. The sump guard covers the frame. The oil change I done exposed it. Still on a plus note it does not look to hard to change and I have allowed a day to it. The car is already jack up ready to go first thing in morning. I have sourced a replacement which is second hand but in mint condition. I still had it shot blast and powder coated. The bits that are left exposed I will treat to stop stone chipping.
Any chance of a walk thru guide. While your doing it with photos if time permits, I,m sure many 159 owners would be very interested. Thanks in hindsight. As many of us might be doing this in the future. When I did a serviceon my mylate 06 . f/frame quite bad not as bad so ttreatedit all and thought the undettray is addi g tto the rust issue as it traps the water, I reshaped some of the inner wheel liners to allow the water to drain off.
 

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Looks like the beast needs galvanising .. though not sure you can powder coat galvo'... :)


Ralf S.
 
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Looks like the beast needs galvanising .. though not sure you can powder coat galvo'... :)


Ralf S.
Powder coat on galvo is actually the right thing to do. Powder coat should never be applied to raw steel in a corrosive environment. The smallest chip will allow water in and it is game over. However galvo has it's own issues, any threads will need protecting with greased bolts and any blind apertures will have to be drilled to let the zinc out or you end up with a subframe weighing half a ton. The heat of the galvo process could also be an issue, causing the structure to warp. I am an engineer in the field BTW.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
......Started late but overall it has taken me a day to get the sub frame out. The bloody thing is at last out. I had the right tools bur have not worked on a project like this for 20 years as spolit by company vans and cars. Something I over looked was rusty bolts. I over looked a propane torch. It took a lot of effort to get some bolts out. Obviously the bolt can be replaced but the threaded hole is the issue. I had an insert twist on a bolt and as a result had to remove the front bump to get access to the insert hidden behind the water botle. Applied lots of heat through a tiny hole (taking care of plastic and wiring) and eventually bolt came fee. I was quite stressed LOL! The hard work is done. Now the fun bit in putting it all back together. A bit of painting and we should be there.
 

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Good job, looks a difficult task, I wonder how much it would cost in a dealers. Probably write my car off. There are gonna be a lot of scrape 159 s about in 5 years time . cheap spares I guess what a crap design. My old spider got ally sub frame at rear and front is fine
 

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It's not really a crap design.. more like the quality of the part. Alfa still uses some cheap fiinishing. You only notice when you go to work on (someone else's) a foreign car.

Having said that, the subframe will last 10-12 years and not many cars make it past that age, no matter how well made they are. Maybe Alfa is gauging the quality of the parts just right...? :D


Ralf S.
 

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Having said that, the subframe will last 10-12 years and not many cars make it past that age, no matter how well made they are. Maybe Alfa is gauging the quality of the parts just right...
From a 20 year old Alfa owner??? :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
:)Hi,

Have the new sub frame in and have covered 200 miles funnily enough to Silverstone. Everything alright and nothing has fallen off. I done it on my front drive with a trolley jack, 4 axle stands and a couple of ramps with wood blocks that I wedged under the car as never trust axle stands on their own. I always feel that the car can roll off the axle stands if you are not careful. I hope this makes sense. I would add it is not for the faint hearted.
It took me two solid days to do it.

The main problem I had was getting the bolts out. Some were proper rusted in hence the use of a propane torch and lots of heat. The only issue with using lots of heat is you are "working" the metal around the bolt. I have yet to fit the sump guard back as do not have the right bolts. I also need to apply some protection to the powder coat to stop the exposed parts chipping.

I have included a few photos of the removed sub frame and replacement. Even on the replacement you can see the pitting in the metal from corrosion but it is solid and is in relatively good condition.



http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=317081&stc=1&d=1398097801
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=317089&stc=1&d=1398097801
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=317097&stc=1&d=1398097801
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=317105&stc=1&d=1398097801
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=317113&stc=1&d=1398097801
 

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Discussion Starter #20
@dazman. I did not support the engine or gearbox. The main engine mounts appeared to be attached to the body of the car and not the sub frame. When under the car I could push the engine against the mounts and I came to the conclusion they stabilise the engine rather than support it. They do not bear the full load. I took it that the mounts on the car body could support the load while the sub frame was removed. When I loosened the mounts and removed them from the sub frame the engine remained in the same position. When fitting the new sub frame the mounts lined up exactly with the engine with no persuasion and I reinserted the bolts by hand with no effort. I took it from this that the engine had not moved or dropped in any way. I am sure someone will point out I should have supported it but did not feel it was needed. The items I supported were the front radiator and steering rack. I also removed the anti-roll bar from the sub frame prior to sub frame removal which allowed me to leave the exhaust alone. I would add it was easier to remove the anti-roll bar bolts once I had dropped and supported the sub frame a few inches. It just meant it was easier to access the bolts.
 
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