[kutario]

Howdy folks,

Super site you have here. I was hoping my first post was going to be a jolly affair, alas this is not the case. I've scoured the forum for wisdom but I am still at a loss. Perhaps you chaps can shed some light on the issue:

2004 GT 1.9 JTD

When stationary, and with the engine running, a wickedly strong smell of exhaust surrounds the car, way too strong for the JTD. It surrounds the car to the extent that it gets into the cabin and chokes the occupants. Only way to stop from asphyxiating is to have the fan off or on recirculation. Open the door to admit/drop off a passenger and the noxious stench gets sucked into the cabin. The strength of the smell has also increased over time. I bought the car recently, unaware of the problem. Started to notice it as the strength of the smell increased.

Here's what's what:

No drop in performance throughout the range.
Getting 32mpg.
A little black smoke on startup and initial bursts of strong acceleration.
No drop in oil level since its service a few months back.
Recently renewed air filter, oil filter, diesel filter, and oil.
No fault codes reported.
Recently replaced lower turbo hose.
Upper turbo hose looks OK.
Cleaned EGR valve and solenoid.
Cleaned the MAP out.
Disconnected the MAF and there was no difference in smell/performance.
Had the exhaust checked over and no faults found.
Brought it to two garages. One reckons the piston rings are gone, the other cannot find anything without my putting down "big money" to investigate.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Dickymint_156]

hmmm if somone has looked at the exhaust and found nothing then the only thing I can think of is that a heatsheild is missing under the car and its cooking the bottom of the car......
or... maybe small oil leak somware burning off on a hot part of the engine, the only reason I say that is because i had the same thing happen a few years ago and I thought it was the exhaust

 

[kutario]

Hmmm, I'm going to have to have another good look under the car while she's running. You've just reminded me that the exhaust guy said the smell was coming from the turbo. Perhaps I can try the soapy liquid trick on the exhaust joints and turbo. That, another good look for oil leaks, and heat shield patrol. What kind of heat shielding should be in evidence under the body?

 

[t3yls]

I used to get this too ...although the smell wasn't as strong as you describe ...and more so in the winter than the summer. A few months back, I blocked off the egr valve with a plate and it does seem to have gotten a lot better. I won't know properly til winter comes round. May be completely irrelevant or could be your cure! could be worth a go for a £3 plate.

 

[hdseven]

getting 32 mpg out of a diesel !! something is wrong........is timing out and its over fueling !
i get mid 40s urban and 60 on a run outta mine

Gary

 

[davealfa11]

Howdy folks,




No drop in performance throughout the range.
Getting 32mpg.
A little black smoke on startup and initial bursts of strong acceleration.
No drop in oil level since its service a few months back.
Recently renewed air filter, oil filter, diesel filter, and oil.
No fault codes reported.
Recently replaced lower turbo hose.
Upper turbo hose looks OK.
Cleaned EGR valve and solenoid.
Cleaned the MAP out.
Disconnected the MAF and there was no difference in smell/performance.
Had the exhaust checked over and no faults found.
Brought it to two garages. One reckons the piston rings are gone, the other cannot find anything without my putting down "big money" to investigate.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

disconnecting MAF not necessarily would change /alter performance as ecu has learnt maybe poor signals associated with a bad MAF,fault codes not necessarily stored in ecu if MAF is faulty
2 garages take they werent specialists then i would find a specialist to look at it .....


has this problem started recently after the service??????

 

[losa]

Howdy folks,

Super site you have here. I was hoping my first post was going to be a jolly affair, alas this is not the case. I've scoured the forum for wisdom but I am still at a loss. Perhaps you chaps can shed some light on the issue:

2004 GT 1.9 JTD

When stationary, and with the engine running, a wickedly strong smell of exhaust surrounds the car, way too strong for the JTD. It surrounds the car to the extent that it gets into the cabin and chokes the occupants. Only way to stop from asphyxiating is to have the fan off or on recirculation. Open the door to admit/drop off a passenger and the noxious stench gets sucked into the cabin. The strength of the smell has also increased over time. I bought the car recently, unaware of the problem. Started to notice it as the strength of the smell increased.

Here's what's what:

No drop in performance throughout the range.
Getting 32mpg.
A little black smoke on startup and initial bursts of strong acceleration.
No drop in oil level since its service a few months back.
Recently renewed air filter, oil filter, diesel filter, and oil.
No fault codes reported.
Recently replaced lower turbo hose.
Upper turbo hose looks OK.
Cleaned EGR valve and solenoid.
Cleaned the MAP out.
Disconnected the MAF and there was no difference in smell/performance.
Had the exhaust checked over and no faults found.
Brought it to two garages. One reckons the piston rings are gone, the other cannot find anything without my putting down "big money" to investigate.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Hard case to crack, could be some of these situations:

Leaking seal between cylinder head an exhaust manifold
- that's common case when exhaust fumes enter the cabin (check for black soot around it).

One or more faulty injectors
- that's common reason for excessive exhaust smell because combustion on one or more cylinder's is not good enough, adding good diesel additive usually reduces smell (check injection corrections, can do with cheap diagnostic equipment).

Clogged intake manifold channels, or soot deposits on intake valves, or faulty lifter on some of intake valves
- that causes some cylinders don't get enough air, more fuel is added to compensate bad combustion to maintain idle rpm, and unburnt fuel is what produces excessive exhaust smell (you can try something like Wyns Diesel EGR cleaner spay to clean the intake and valves).

Compression leak on some of the cylinders (leaking by valves, or by worn/broken piston rings, or by gunked piston rings caused by bad injector).
- low compresion causes bad combustion, more fuel is added to compensate bad combustion to maintain idle rpm, and unburnt fuel is what produces excessive exhaust smell (check cylinder compression, can do with cheap manometer and M9 glow plug adapter), if compression is low you will have to dismantle the engine to find out what's going on.

Let us know if you crack it.

 

[kutario]

Just removed the MAF and cleaned it with CRC MAF spray. Whilst I was at it I decided to check the air filter out. The bottom part of it is covered in oil! Couple months back I noticed oil around the battery area. It seemed to come from a loose jubilee clip on the upper turbo hose; apparently turbo hoses tend to "sweat". So I cleaned it all up and tightened the turbo hose. Since then I haven't noticed any oil. Could it have seeped into the air box?

Tomorrow I'll hook FiatEcuScan up again and check those injector corrections under engine load and see what's what.

 

[davealfa11]

Just removed the MAF and cleaned it with CRC MAF spray. Whilst I was at it I decided to check the air filter out. The bottom part of it is covered in oil! Couple months back I noticed oil around the battery area. It seemed to come from a loose jubilee clip on the upper turbo hose; apparently turbo hoses tend to "sweat". So I cleaned it all up and tightened the turbo hose. Since then I haven't noticed any oil. Could it have seeped into the air box?

Tomorrow I'll hook FiatEcuScan up again and check those injector corrections under engine load and see what's what.

you didnt answer my question

 

[kutario]

Apologies for that. I noticed the smell before bringing it to get serviced. It was the very next day after buying it. Had the window down and was sitting in traffic. It wasn't as bad back then.

One garage was an official Alfa dealer, the other an independent specialist.

 

[davealfa11]

Apologies for that. I noticed the smell before bringing it to get serviced. It was the very next day after buying it. Had the window down and was sitting in traffic. It wasn't as bad back then.

One garage was an official Alfa dealer, the other an independent specialist.

the smell can be incomplete combustion

 

[losa]

I used to get this too ...although the smell wasn't as strong as you describe ...and more so in the winter than the summer. A few months back, I blocked off the egr valve with a plate and it does seem to have gotten a lot better. I won't know properly til winter comes round. May be completely irrelevant or could be your cure! could be worth a go for a £3 plate.

Logical, if you block the EGR, there are no inert gases in combustion chamber (only fresh air) and combustion is better with less unburnt fuel smell at exhaust.

Just removed the MAF and cleaned it with CRC MAF spray. Whilst I was at it I decided to check the air filter out. The bottom part of it is covered in oil! Couple months back I noticed oil around the battery area. It seemed to come from a loose jubilee clip on the upper turbo hose; apparently turbo hoses tend to "sweat". So I cleaned it all up and tightened the turbo hose. Since then I haven't noticed any oil. Could it have seeped into the air box?

Tomorrow I'll hook FiatEcuScan up again and check those injector corrections under engine load and see what's what.

Check injection corrections at idle under load (turn on AC, lights, rear screen heater...), they should not exceed +/-2.

BTW check desired and actual air intake quantity (if it is around 480mg/i when EGR is closed, and arround 290mg/i when EGR open that MAF is OK and you don't need to worry about it any more).

 

[PhilzAlfa]

I would still be suspicious of the exhaust system and, stating the obvious, exhaust fumes in the passenger cabin are extremely dangerous!

I think I'm right in saying that the quickest way to find an exhaust leak (if there is one) is to start the engine and then get someone wearing large boots to gently seal the end of the exhaust pipe by lying on the ground behind the car and placing their sole over the end of the pipe. Obviously this is best done with a cold system. If the exhaust is good, the engine will stop. If it is leaking, the location of the leak should become a lot more obvious.

 

[[email protected]]

I had nasty diesel/exhaust type smell on mine some time back,it turned out to be slight leak from the recently replaced diesel filter dripping down onto the exhaust, after sorting it smell gone.

 

[Alphataurus]

I had that same problem a few months ago. I have the 2.4 20v 156, not sure if your 1.9 is the same but this is worth mentioning:
My car had just been in for a service when I noticed the smell of fumes first of all so that gave me a hint. In the 2.4 the exhaust has to be uncoupled from the turbo in order to remove and replace the oil filter. After the filter was replaced the exhaust was not reconnected correctly allowing it to leek into the engine compartment and from there into the car, so bad it made my eyes water.

 

[kutario]

I tried the soapy water trick on the exhaust and no bubbles. losa, I've just tested the injector corrections under load.

Cyl 1: -3.0
Cyl 2: -0.33
Cyl 3: +3.6
Cyl 4: -0.45

and the desired/actual air intake at idle

Desired: 314mg/i
Actual: 486mg/i

and revving to 3000rpm

Desired: 1200mg/i
Actual: 600mg/i

Looks like injectors 1 & 3 are misbehaving. Could that be caused by damaged piston rings or is it just a case of knackered injectors?

 

[losa]

I tried the soapy water trick on the exhaust and no bubbles. losa, I've just tested the injector corrections under load.

Cyl 1: -3.0
Cyl 2: -0.33
Cyl 3: +3.6
Cyl 4: -0.45

and the desired/actual air intake at idle

Desired: 314mg/i
Actual: 486mg/i

and revving to 3000rpm

Desired: 1200mg/i
Actual: 600mg/i

Looks like injectors 1 & 3 are misbehaving. Could that be caused by damaged piston rings or is it just a case of knackered injectors?

Yeah:
- no1 for some reason is over-fueling so ECU reduces fuel quantity (might be bad injector)
- no3 for some reason ECU increases fuel quantity (might be clogged injector, might be lack of air in cylinder, might be low compression on that cylinder, or might be influenced because it fires right after no1)

I suggest you to go to BOSCH specialist and they will:
- check injectors on the test bench, and determine if they are faulty
- check the compression because it's easy when the injectors are out, and determine if compression is similar on all cylinders
- when refitting injector they will clean the seats and put new copper gaskets below injectors (otherwise if you do all this alone and don't do it right you could get compression blowby on some injectors)


BTW, how the engine behaves on idle (does it vibrate more that normal), and does it get's worse when you load it with AC/lights/RearScreenHeater/...


Air intake quantity is OK, so you don't need to worry about MAF any more...

 

[kutario]

Well lads, latest info. I rang a diesel specialist about getting a compression and injector test done and he advised me to take the car out and give it a good run before bringing it in. A good run meant running it at 3000rpm for around 30 mins. I took his advice and headed off.

10 minutes into the good run and my engine suffered overrun where it could not be shut off by turning off the ignition and continued to rev. Eventually the engine did stop running after about a minute. I managed to start the car again and drive it home without incident but have not started it since. An oil dipper stick check has revealed that the level has gone from max to min.

 

[davealfa11]

Well lads, latest info. I rang a diesel specialist about getting a compression and injector test done and he advised me to take the car out and give it a good run before bringing it in. A good run meant running it at 3000rpm for around 30 mins. I took his advice and headed off.

10 minutes into the good run and my engine suffered overrun where it could not be shut off by turning off the ignition and continued to rev. Eventually the engine did stop running after about a minute. I managed to start the car again and drive it home without incident but have not started it since. An oil dipper stick check has revealed that the level has gone from max to min.

looks like your turbocharger could be fueling your motor:wow:

 

[kutario]

It does, doesn't it

Seals?