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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
“Stellantis' announced departure from the ACEA comes just as European Union policymakers are seeking to ban on combustion engines starting in 2035, citing the need to protect the planet. The ACEA issued a statement last week calling for caution on that target given the uncertainty ongoing around supply chains in the industry and need to develop a more robust charging network.

Stellantis predicts all of its passenger vehicle sales in Europe will be fully electric by 2030. But CEO Carlos Tavares also has called on lawmakers to take a holistic view on the transformation of transportation, including charging needs and how the energy powering EVs is being produced.

“The environmental challenges ahead of us coupled with a rapidly evolving business environment require an efficient, global and inclusive 360-degree approach involving all those who wish to contribute to building sustainable mobility,” Tavares said in a statement. “We intend to create a public forum in which contributors can come together to address the key questions surrounding the debate on decarbonized mobility and provide actionable next steps for us to take together. Access to clean, safe and affordable mobility for the citizens across the world is at stake.””

more realistic or unable to acheive the simplistic aims including the ban on non-EVs?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
BERLIN -- Germany's government will not agree to European Union plans to effectively ban the sale of new cars with combustion engines from 2035, Finance Minister Christian Lindner said.
In its bid to cut planet-warming emissions by 55 percent by 2030 from 1990 levels, the European Commission has proposed a 100 percent reduction in CO2 emissions from new cars by 2035. That means it would be impossible to sell combustion engine cars starting then. It’s a month before negotiations with EU countries on the final law take place.
Speaking at an event hosted by Germany's BDI industry association on Tuesday, Lindner said there would continue to be niches for combustion engines so a ban was wrong and said the government would not agree to this European legislation.
Lindner, a member of the pro-business Free Democrats, which shares power with the Social Democrats and Greens, said Germany would still be a leading market for electric vehicles.
 

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As I see it ACEA want the ban delayed probably due to pressure from German members. Stellantis, being further ahead in EV development, see this as an opportunity to increase sales so are not in favour of the ACEA stance so are hoping to develop an alternative to the ACEA. This, I think, is unlikely to happen and German pressure on the EU will lead to a typical EU fudge allowing each manufacturer wriggle room.
 

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Did you read it or simply see and opportunity for profanity?
Yes I read it.

EV is not the answer and never has been. The battery production process from start to finish is much more damaging to the environment than ICE.

Vehicle manufacturers are largely to blame for making cars "disposable" items, designed not to last.
Customers are also largely to blame for treating cars as disposable items, always wanting the newest model and changing car every 12 months.

If we didn't have this throw away culture, pollution would be vastly less.

Also, humans are not responsible for global warming, it's part of the planet's natural life cycle.
 

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While I agree with some of your comments especially regarding electric vehicles, I can't agree on you views regarding the human input towards global warming.

Yes the planet has a natural warming and cooling cycle but all the scientific evidence points to humans causing this current warming phase to happen quicker than if we didn't produce all our harmful pollutants.
 

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Sorry, wrong word used. I meant that although we have an effect on climate change, we didn't cause it.

At the end of the day, our input has accelerated it by a few decades. A mere piddle in the wind considering the life cycle of the planet can be counted in millennia.
 

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946 Spider LE, Giulia Veloce, Stelvio Speciale
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Not sure what language you speak but it sounds like ******** to me.
Unless of course you have a Phd in Environmental Science but I suspect not.
 

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Not sure what language you speak but it sounds like **** to me.
Unless of course you have a Phd in Environmental Science but I suspect not.
It's called good old fashioned education. Maybe you're too young to appreciate that? :rolleyes:

FWIW, I do have environment related qualifications. I have a degree in Marine Biology (and yet I never managed to get a job in that field) and I have an MSc in Sustainable Engineering - Renewable Energy Systems and the Environment, to give it it's full title.
 

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Consider this: in 8 years most, if not all new cars on sale should be electrict.

Where will the electricity to power them come from?

Where will all the materials requiered to manufacture the batteries come from?

EV's certainly are necessary, but I seriously doubt they alone will be a solution.
 

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QUOTE @MadMotoUK

I hate EVs....but....


Yes I read it.

EV is not the answer and never has been. The battery production process from start to finish is much more damaging to the environment than ICE. WRONG...and the overall carbon production from production to disposal of a EV is WAY less than an ICE car.

Vehicle manufacturers are largely to blame for making cars "disposable" items, designed not to last.
Customers are also largely to blame for treating cars as disposable items, always wanting the newest model and changing car every 12 months. CORRECT

If we didn't have this throw away culture, pollution would be vastly less. SORT OF....continuing to use high polluting vehicles will produce more carbon than replacing them with EVs.....long term at least.

Also, humans are not responsible for global warming, it's part of the planet's natural life cycle. WRONG.....humans have accelerated carbon in the atmosphere at an almost exponential rate since the industrial revolution...CO has NEVER increased at the rate it has since then.

(Still never driving an EV though!!!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The jump to electric was unrealistic but car makers still pay for factory labour etc even if they’re not building cars so the show must go on. It’s typical of the German mentality to put all their eggs in a basket and try to make it work even if it’s the wrong basket. Porsche‘s package layout didn’t work very well until they’d done it for decades. VW persisted with the Beetle until they realised it was a dead-end so they went to Turin for a replacement.
 

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@alfaitalia

I hate EVs....but....


Yes I read it.

EV is not the answer and never has been. The battery production process from start to finish is much more damaging to the environment than ICE. WRONG...and the overall carbon production from production to disposal of a EV is WAY less than an ICE car.

You fail to take into account the ongoing electricity production required which means upgrading infrastructure & additional supply sources. Just think of the environmental impact of all of this added up from the construction of these new power sources and laying of upgraded infrastructure.


Vehicle manufacturers are largely to blame for making cars "disposable" items, designed not to last.
Customers are also largely to blame for treating cars as disposable items, always wanting the newest model and changing car every 12 months. CORRECT

If we didn't have this throw away culture, pollution would be vastly less. SORT OF....continuing to use high polluting vehicles will produce more carbon than replacing them with EVs.....long term at least.

Any reduction in pollutants would be offset by my point above. There will always be ICE vehicles involved in construction, whether it be mining or civils.


Also, humans are not responsible for global warming, it's part of the planet's natural life cycle. WRONG.....humans have accelerated carbon in the atmosphere at an almost exponential rate since the industrial revolution...CO has NEVER increased at the rate it has since then.

We are talking about a period of less than 200 years since the Industrial Revolution. Put two centuries alongside several millennia, it's still a pee in the wind.


(Still never driving an EV though!!!)
[
 

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To either/all sides here: to not make this a standard pointless internet dickfencing match, pls provide citations&sources to back your claims... And use proper quoting technique, otherwise it'll get very hard to follow who said what. Not that it really matters though :sneaky:
 

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It's called good old fashioned education. Maybe you're too young to appreciate that? :rolleyes:

FWIW, I do have environment related qualifications. I have a degree in Marine Biology (and yet I never managed to get a job in that field) and I have an MSc in Sustainable Engineering - Renewable Energy Systems and the Environment, to give it it's full title.
Well .
It seems your Open Uni education hasnt helped you much.
FWIW I graduated in 1988 Nottingham Uni Agricultural Science.
Its a shame you seem to have wasted your time at Uni.
 
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