Me too, what's the trick?

 

as far as i know, there is no permanent off as yet

 

This is something we are working on along with turning the traction control off

My Giulia had a dead battery when I first got it and broke down 3 times, I fitted a Bosch battery from a 159 and the car could see it was a lower power battery and the stop/start stopped working

Now the car has been back to the dealer and the correct battery fitted the stop/start has started working again

Not a permanent fix but it disabled the stop/start on my 2.0 Giulia

Ned

 

thats similar to what i just had, i had a check engine come on for a while, and for the whole time the error showed, the stop/start didnt work

it went away after 45 minutes of being stationary and switched off though, so it wasnt as if it recharged, unless it did recharge on the way home and it was maybe the 5-6 restarts that cleared the error from the ECU eventually (if that makes sense)

 

on the early giulietta's, you could simply disable it via OBD using MES. Giulia might be a bit more complicated though with all the electronics, and of course MES does not support it yet.
on later giulietta's Alfa changed it so the system remembered the last setting.

example giulietta:

 

We had to buy the new Witech plus to talk to the Giulia (more money) :curse:

I haven't seen an option in there to turn the start stop off

Ned

 

Is there not a stop start cancel button on the dash somewhere like in every other car I've owned or driven with stop start?

 

Yep, but it resets on every new trip which a few folks don't like.

 

start & stop system Alfa Giulia



Hi
if you find the way, please share with us

I'm truly fed up with such start & stop system (brand new Alfa Giulia )
In my case, it keeps on stopping the engine when (slowly) entering (every day) a roundabout
it's extremely dangerous, I'm always parked in the middle of a 3 lane roundabout where cars are driving quite fast
for the time being, my only solution is a YELLOW MEMO on the main screen
best reg
LT (Italy)

 

I'd love to be able to permanently turn off the start/stop on my Quadrifoglio like I can on my Mito.

My first attempt , wedging the end of a toothpick up the side of the switch , was a dismal failure.

As another has said, on some cars MES can be used to disable the s/s function. However, the last version of MES, 3.7, has very limited Giulia functionality so that option is, I feel, a year at least away.

Another thought, is that we know that the ECU or some other software unit senses the battery charge and won't allow start/stop to function if the battery is a bit low.

So one might try to kid the software that the battery is low. One might just disconnect a battery sensor wire. I fear though that things aren't that simple as the same sensor signal, I suspect, may be used by software to control the alternator output.

Andy

 

....

So one might try to kid the software that the battery is low. One might just disconnect a battery sensor wire. I fear though that things aren't that simple as the same sensor signal, I suspect, may be used by software to control the alternator output.

Andy

As a lot of circuits/software probably work with that information, I doubt that would be a good idea......

 

The Electronic Stop Start (ESS) system is controlled by the IBS - intelligent battery sensor (the block connected to one of the battery terminals).
Based on what I gathered from Mopar Tech Authority site a while ago I have copied and added some info below for one of you clever software/electronic geeks to work out how to do it:

The ESS system consists of the following components:
Brake pedal switch
Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS)
Hood ajar switch
Manual On/Off switch


So in theory you could modify the one of the switches to tell the ESS to stay off. It might however show up another error due to everything being linked via CANBUS as the info. also states the ESS system is disabled in case of a malfunction. The driver is informed by a warning indicator illuminating for general failure and, where provided, by the information message and by the icon of system failure.

IBS with Negative Pole:
The IBS is a Local Interconnect Network (LIN) bus module that communicates with the BCM . The IBS is used
for monitoring the battery to make sure the ESS system can operate correctly. This information, in conjunction
with other coming information from other vehicle devices/modules, is used to activate or deactivate the ESS
system.
The general principle is that the engine should not be stopped automatically if the battery capacity is not
sufficient to restart it. If during an Autostop cycle, if the battery conditions are questionable when a restart is
needed, the system will restart instead of waiting for other system inputs.
The ESS system is also disabled if a possible IBS fault does not allow the actual battery status to be properly
determined. In this situation, an internal error signal is generated in the BCM.
The ESS system function is primarily managed by the PCM which decides whether to enable or disable the
system.

So likely fix is possibly a change to one of Body Control Unit software codes or else modify the signal/relay status going to the BCM.

 

Or the least intrusive, simply automatically press the stop/start button everytime you start. Did the same on my 147 GTA, to automatically disable the ASR each time upon starting, when I installed an LSD. Built a small circuit at the time to do this.
http://home.planet.nl/~jwq/temp_gta/asr_switch_instructions.pdf

edit: in the diagram above, I miss the actual switch to enable/disable the stop/start. I get the impression it mainly covers the "normal" engine start/stop via the steering wheel.....

 

So if you removed the hood latch activated micro switch from its bracket (Im guessing here) and let it dangle the sop start function would be permanently off? I cant recall if you dont close the hood properly does a warning come up every time you start the car?

 

in the USA, their regulations prevent the car restarting at all (under stop/start) if the bonnet is unlatched

so you could drive off, and at the first intersction it wont restart (same as unlatching a seatbelt, while it has stopped)

 

I just posted what's on USA mopar. Will have to try fiddling. The circuit does appear incomplete missing ESS switch. Will have to investigate sometime. For now I push the switch and turn it off using a great tool called "trained forefinger memory". This device rarely forgets

 

you can lightly brake to halfway and it still brings the car to a full stop and it wont activate Stop/Start

you need years of practice in the medical field though to be able to perform such delicate operations with your feet

 

Ok papa. Good to know. So that isn't an option then...


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Macca, thats in the USA only i believe, there is a section in the manual that gives more detail, i know ive tried it with my seatbelt and it restarted, so different markets

that Stop/Start monitors a lot of things going on, like battery charge, hill gradient,personally i wouldnt be stuffing around with the logic, it could throw some nasty bugs into the mix

 

Also, if you disconnected bonnet switch, I'm guessing this would also stuff up the alarm?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

untill alfa comes with a permanent fix and/or setting via OBD, I think my solution should work and is risk-free

 

it does seem to point to a "digital" solution being the most reliable and bug free.

 

You missed out 'have an argument with Brooking' from your start up list PG

 

:happy::yum::blah:

 

Disabling SS every time you start the car just becomes second nature.
Just as switching it on in traffic jams does too.

After about 6 months you don't even consciously know you are doing it.
Like putting a car in Dynamic mode too.


Although I do like the hard SS disable on the cheap Jeep.

 

bit of refreshing the subject.
as I'm probably the lazy one, a few months ago I developed plug&play solution for deactivating S&S and added it to my Giulia (see video, sorry polish version - will do english soon):
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Xt6S5vKJ2LjSb9Rs6

I also realized that after 15 years of designing precision electornics and DSP solutions for aircraft industry, I have enough, and right now I'm setting up my own business/webshop - soon will be open (STUFF4CAR BLOG. Right now I have stock of SGW bypass modules manufactured and S&S deactivator is on its way for release soon. I'm at engineering units production stage right now with S&S deactivator, just got 5 prototypes on my desk today - will crack on these early next week, they will go for final testing in a few alfas, and market availability is expected 2nd half of Aug. I'll keep you updated once they are released and webshop will be in place.

 

Well done on your iniative to make a busness from this. You seem to know what you are doing and have created some smart solutions for those of us driving the Giulia/Stelvio and its really commendable to see this kind of private entermorise effort being made. I for one would love yur Stop/Start solution - its looks very smart and non evasive so will be visiting your store to purchase as soon as these are ready. Please try and ensure fair international shipping costs where possible so you can easily access a global audience for these. Thanks again and best of luck....

 

That is relatively simple design, though what I'm not get used to is that as far I've been dealing only with concept, design specification acceptance, schematics sketch (technician redrawn it and cared for all), PCB design supervising (again anothe engineer drawn it), FPGA design (now do on microcontroller) and supervised verification/documentation. mechanical work or marketing was not my job. here I'm man orchestra doing nearly all myself, only production I supervise or outsource.

When I get closer to release, and get bit of time, I will see how it is about shipping outside EU - I guess finding reasonable price postage may be some challenge (surely it won't be any quick courier service as expect to be more expensive than device), also not sure if there won't be any documentaton to be prepared for customs as well as would need to check if polish VAT woudl need to be applied. I think none of my designs as far went to New Zealand, though they do serve in US/EU/Asia, and some are even on ISS flying ~400km above our heads, so NZ should be also achievable

Does this fully deactivate S/S? IE you cannot turn it on at all?

I know one of the Alfa independents can switch the activation around so that the button turns it on, rather than off which seems like the perfect solution to me.


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Currently it has 2 modes, one is neutral, so does what car without it, and other forces LED on soon after power up ,then it is neutral. In the 2nd mode it checks status of S&S (LED), and changes state if required, only that. You can still later manually change state yourself, but at next power up it will back default to 2nd mode so making LED on. You can switch to permanent neutral mode by pressing S&S button 8 times within 20 seconds, and the same from neutral to 2nd mode again doing 8 presses. this is in my current prototype, may change it slightly in final, will see. try to watch my video, ignore polish language, just see what I'm doing there. starting from 2nd mode being remembered in non-volatile memory, then playing a bit with it SS on, off, power ups, later do 8 pressses to go to neutral, again bit of playing etc.

Of course if you have any suggestions, i may modify firmware a bit. Also, in case e.g. FCA will mess with LED or logic/timing in future (I doubt they will ever do), I will be able issue update you coudl easily download into your S&S deactivator via USB.

For cars with modified ECU firmware where they reversed the default and so S&S is disabled by default, I guess you do not need my module - unless you bought such car, but want S&S on by default (surely not me). Is LED meaning reversed or the same? I may introduce 3rd mode just in case for such cars if people want this at day one, or leave it for later requests.
Anyway, that S&S reverting in ECU is something which doesn't go well with warranty - you leave trace in ECU number of programmings and non-identical firmware content or need open ECU and flash directly so again leave traces which coudl be discovered if in case of serious failure (say like recently one guy on polish forum had replaced 2.0 engine as it started giving odd noises at 28kkm/1year and the engine turned only for warranty replacement due to cranshaft bearing wrecked)

 

Does this fully deactivate S/S? IE you cannot turn it on at all?

I know one of the Alfa independents can switch the activation around so that the button turns it on, rather than off which seems like the perfect solution to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

.....
I know one of the Alfa independents can switch the activation around so that the button turns it on, rather than off which seems like the perfect solution to me.

However, apparently, on the latest models (Euro6D (WLTP norm)) this no longer works, and the only option is permanently off

 

Thanks for the explanation. It sounds like a very elegant solution. Is it an OBDII module or something we just connect behind the switch?

Postage to new Zealand is easy. Just the same as post to UK. You go to post office and send international small parcel etc. No different. I assume the solution is small and will fit into a small box or padded envelope etc so I dont see any issues there. Im definately interested so please keep this thread updated when you launch and Ill order one...Thanks

 

It is different than shipping to UK, due to outside EU. UK-New Zeland is probably easier as you still have linkage to common British monarchy I think. Anywya, I looked at national postage service (couriers too expensive), and it is fine in terms of price, shipping time not bad, only thing is a few customs forms to fill in, so bit of hassle first time to find out what goes there, what set of forms to fill in etc. On your side, your customs may stop this and ask you for paying taxes. there will be invoice inside, so shoudl be easier - I could issue one in English as well.
I need only to find out as doing export, if I shoudl strip VAT or not - no experience - I know how this works in EU (EU VAT payer customer, strip VAT, non EU VAT payer keep VAT in price) - it may be the same for outside EU, but need to confirm. We will crack on this late Aug- need to get website and all payment methods active. Right now dealing with bank on a few payment methods including credit cards, but need to talk to Paypal as well (no time to start another one topic right now) and integrate with their APIs.

 

Received the Stop Start Deactivation unit today from https://shop.stuff4car.com/en/index.php?route=common/home.
It only took a minute to install and i can finally forget all about the startup procedure of pushing the button to disable SS each time i get into the car.

All I have left to do now is just hit the soft suspension button after startup as i leave the car in D mostly.
Hitting both buttons before this on startup was a bit of a pain and its great to finally not have to hit SS button anymore, to be fair i did get into the habit of hitting both most of the time but the odd time i forgot caught me out with some swearing at a nasty half blind junction near where i live.

Great job "epsonix"

 

Received the Stop Start Deactivation unit today from https://shop.stuff4car.com/en/index.php?route=common/home.
It only took a minute to install and i can finally forget all about the startup procedure of pushing the button to disable SS each time i get into the car.

All I have left to do now is just hit the soft suspension button after startup as i leave the car in D mostly.
Hitting both buttons before this on startup was a bit of a pain and its great to finally not have to hit SS button anymore, to be fair i did get into the habit of hitting both most of the time but the odd time i forgot caught me out with some swearing at a nasty half blind junction near where i live.

Great job "epsonix"

Thanks for positive feedback, and I'm happy to have another satisfied customer. If there was enought people for device which does someting with suspension (whatver I could program/tweak in behaviour, could be also depending on DNA mode), then some device coudl be developed no problem. Would there be enough interested people? Mean that controlable suspension is an option which is only in small percentage of cars - I can't end up on selling 5 units in total as even high price won't conver any development/documentation/production etc. Maybe when I get to some CAN unit to control other things, then this functionality could be easily added - would need SGW bypass for cars >=2.2018 or could be integrated with SGW bypass (but then only cars >=2.2018 so not best solution).

Handy if you need a bike tyre lever.

yes, I went through a lot of car trim/panel levers, they were either too expensive to add for free, or did not fit well, and then came across bicycle tire levers - this one is superb for the job - fits perfectly, have round edges and good quality, and not expensive (~EUR0.5) so I can add it without influencing device price.