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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

No ideas but shouldn't your thread be called MSSS (My Super Sprint Sucks ;) )
Good luck with her, hope she gets better.
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

Lukas said:
Well, the dyno speaks for itself. 753603 + 753606 = 1 hp gain, 9 Nm loss. Any ideas?
753603 + 753606 is (was) the combination on my wish list, but I am not sure now.....

There are 11 days between your dyno runs. Temperature and air preasure are different. Did you use the same fuel? It would be best to make a dyno run, swith the exhausts and make another run.

Keep us posted if you find out what is the cause. Good luck.
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

hi, I have the 753606 tailbox and 753613 mid section (no baffle) and very pleased with them.

Haven't had the car dyno'd so don't know if there is any 'real' performance benefit but car pull's better from low down and sounds glorious!!!

Mind you I've also got the CDA induction kit (minus inlet pipe as it fell off!) and an Angel tuning re-map so maybe it's just they all work well together...

My brother has a 156 2.5v6 and we went head to head the other day - he didn't catch me till over well over 100 as I was nearing top speed and he still had another 20mph to go!!
:(
Time for the longer 5th gear me thinks!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

bigboy said:
Haven't had the car dyno'd so don't know if there is any 'real' performance benefit but car pull's better from low down and sounds glorious!!!

Mind you I've also got the CDA induction kit (minus inlet pipe as it fell off!) and an Angel tuning re-map so maybe it's just they all work well together...
Hello bigboy, thanks for your nice PMs.
I do not say "it sucks for everybody" but the dyno results vs. "good feeling" are two different cases. It may pull better (cause you hear the sporty growl - which is fantastic I must admit!) but the real performance doesn't change or gets worse... That's why the car went to local dyno before and after. Anyway my feeling is... I don't feel the difference.

BTW I also got Green air filter. No re-map as yet but the re-map should give an increase over already increased performance done by the exhaust not the cure to get back to standard. I do not complain about only 1 hp gain as it is minor problem when looking at torque line which is lower through all the range.

I have just sent an email to Supersprint, lucky I am it is not August :lol: !
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

I have one more idea. Both your central and end silencers are new. They might have still some resistance to the airflow. Maybe after few hundres of kilometers the damping material will "drive in" a little.

Just a thought....
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

gotcha said:
I have one more idea. Both your central and end silencers are new. They might have still some resistance to the airflow. Maybe after few hundres of kilometers the damping material will "drive in" a little...
Unortunately I don't think so. It has been some 5 days and 500 km before I went to the dyno for the second time. The car has been reved hardly few times. So the exhaust had time and possibilities to bed in I think.
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

good one lukas. 1hp is insignificant. readings may vary by as much as 2-3hp on the same day on back-to-back dyno runs. ive long suspected the effectiveness of SS having one exhaust setup for 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, and 2.5L engines. sounds like u lost torque cos exhaust diameter was simply too large for ur car.

are custom exhaust setups cheap in poland? if so, id suggest u go that route. good luck!

redd
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

the distance from the cylinder's outlet to the midlle box is responsible for the rpm that the maximum torque appears, while the shape- construction of the box is responsible of the torque number. Removing the middle box opens up the free flow increasing the bhp but messing up the torque. So your problem is probably related to this.
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

At least you have 1hp gain…not bad!!!
Let me explain…the engine are optimized to have certain quantity on air intake and exhaust exit…if you enlarge your exhaust exit you have less exhaust back pressure, then…less torque!
Of course not all its bad…you have a loss in torque and low revs…but you have gains in top power, high revs!
Look again at your dyno and see the max engine power value…in OEM you have 101.5PS at 6065rpm…..but with SS mod you have 104.2PS at 6510rpm….more 2.7PS at higher rpm, more 445rpm!!!
When preparing an race engine …normally they want more power at higher revs as possible, sometime they don’t have so lower revs that the engine almost “die” in neutral!
And when you gain more power at high revs in an aspirated engine…normally you lose torque…example can be seen in Honda engine…the normally have almost same amount value in torque as they have in HP!
A Honda with +- 125hp normally has less than 130nm…if it has 200hp…has less than 200nm…but they do something like 8000-9000rpm, that’s why!
Another example, if you lighter your flywheel you might have less torque in dyno…that doesn’t mean that on road the car have less acceleration…but complete the opposite!
I’ve made some mods on my exhaust system…and when I had system with all completely free (no kats at all!), the low revs were stupidly with no power…I hit gas and almost have no acceleration…but in top speed have title better!
Because I also drive it on the city and the sound was very very loud…I’ve installed my main kat again, then I’ve gain again some torque at low revs…because exhaust have more backpressure!
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

The cause might very well be ambient air temp,air pressure and humidity on the day of the test.Alos over fueling or under fueling of the injectors and their cycle duty.Possible glitch with the MAF reading sent to the ECU aswell. ;)

I lost 3 bhp the last time the car was tested,due to a very high intake temp of 66 degrees C.Now Im back up to 280bhp/232 ft/lbs torque at 12 psi boost with the intake temp sorted properly.Presently at 45 degrees C,which is good for my cars spec,but could be better.

The little monster is back up in the air having gearbox work done and more tuning work done to decrease the intake temp down to 30-40 degrees C and this will give more bhp/torque.

A bigger radiator is a good investment as it will cool the engine more/better.This is vital when you start to push your engine to or near its limits.I know this all too well.I invested in a 50mm thick core Pace race rad.Well worth the money.

REMEMBER,-the colder the intake temp and coolant temp of the engine,then the denser the air becomes,then the more power the engine makes.Get the cars cooling and intake temp sorted first,then go for the big power :D
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

jomor said:
the distance from the cylinder's outlet to the midlle box is responsible for the rpm that the maximum torque appears, while the shape- construction of the box is responsible of the torque number. Removing the middle box opens up the free flow increasing the bhp but messing up the torque. So your problem is probably related to this.
Photos enclosed. I would say that the mid one is in the same place as old. SS do not includes the smallest one which is originally between mid and end. So it should not mess the torque.

Redd said:
good one lukas. 1hp is insignificant. readings may vary by as much as 2-3hp on the same day on back-to-back dyno runs. ive long suspected the effectiveness of SS having one exhaust setup for 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, and 2.5L engines. sounds like u lost torque cos exhaust diameter was simply too large for ur car.
are custom exhaust setups cheap in poland? if so, id suggest u go that route. good luck! redd
Well, writing 1 hp gain was kinda joke - of course it is no gain neither loss, just status quo. Redd, I had some experience with so called custom exhaust made by 'tuning guru' :rant: :rant: :rant: . I had lost both torque and power. Never again! That's why I spent money on SS. I trusted they new what they are doing so I do not buy "the diameter was too large" (even though it is possible reason as far as I remember from articles I read somewhere). It is dedicated exhaust, SS must now the 1,6 TS diameter and consequnces of enlarging. Moreover - the same exhaust fits to all TS so the engine capacity doesn't (shouldn't) matter.


Paulo Mendes said:
At least you have 1hp gain…not bad!!!
Let me explain…the engine are optimized to have certain quantity on air intake and exhaust exit…if you enlarge your exhaust exit you have less exhaust back pressure, then…less torque!
Of course not all its bad…you have a loss in torque and low revs…but you have gains in top power, high revs!
Look again at your dyno and see the max engine power value…in OEM you have 101.5PS at 6065rpm…..but with SS mod you have 104.2PS at 6510rpm….more 2.7PS at higher rpm, more 445rpm!!!
I agree, what you say can be advantages but it's not what has been expected. Shall I sing 'always look at the bright side of life' ? :cheese: I don't think so. There is no statement on the box: "Be aware of serious torque loss". Moreover, on the every dyno they quote on their website thet show increases - even on the 1,6 120 hp (this dyno result has been the subject of the discussion in one of the thread in the past).
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

Alfadublin said:
The cause might very well be ambient air temp,air pressure and humidity on the day of the test.Alos over fueling or under fueling of the injectors and their cycle duty.Possible glitch with the MAF reading sent to the ECU aswell. ;)
Weather conditions are shown on the right bottom of the page. They are very similar. On the other hand the dyno's software corrects all of this to be a comparable result. So, still loss means loss.
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

Lukas said:
Weather conditions are shown on the right bottom of the page. They are very similar. On the other hand the dyno's software corrects all of this to be a comparable result. So, still loss means loss.
They might be similar,but are they exactly the same and dead accurate?Even a slight increase in intake temp or the ambient air temp will increase or decrease bhp/torque. ;)

Heres my exhaust pipework,no silencers at all.Loud.free flowing and spits flames all the time too.Lambda/oxygen sensor lead at the top is for the AEM air/fuel ratio guage and data logger system. :D

P.S Did you make sure that the injector feed/cycles were all the same and that the fuel flow wasnt too lean or too rich.This can also loose bhp,if not set up correctly.
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

Alfadublin said:
They might be similar,but are they exactly the same and dead accurate?Even a slight increase in intake temp or the ambient air temp will increase or decrease bhp/torque. ;)

Heres my exhaust pipework,no silencers at all.Loud.free flowing and spits flames all the time too.Lambda/oxygen sensor lead at the top is for the AEM air/fuel ratio guage and data logger system. :D

P.S Did you make sure that the injector feed/cycles were all the same and that the fuel flow wasnt too lean or too rich.This can also loose bhp,if not set up correctly.
Your pipe is the most beatiful one I have ever seen :p .
Well, we are looking for causes but the answers sound like SS's lawyer speech :lol: . This is a joke I very apreciate your help, really ,but it is close to say all is my fault, the dyno is !!!! worth, then I will say sorry asking to close this thread . During 4 years my car has been three times at the dyno. First during the club meet (just for fun), second while thinking of lack of power ,third is now. All three tests showed the OEM data. Three different dynos at three different parts of Poland through 4 yeras time.

Summing up I would say that the diameter may be the reason for torque loss > Alfadublin, do ya remember > OEM (40mm) ?SS says "Oversize Ø 54mm system".
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

Lukas said:
Your pipe is the most beatiful one I have ever seen :p .
Well, we are looking for causes but the answers sound like SS's lawyer speech :lol: . This is a joke I very apreciate your help, really ,but it is close to say all is my fault, the dyno is !!!! worth, then I will say sorry asking to close this thread . During 4 years my car has been three times at the dyno. First during the club meet (just for fun), second while thinking of lack of power ,third is now. All three tests showed the OEM data. Three different dynos at three different parts of Poland through 4 yeras time.

Summing up I would say that the diameter may be the reason for torque loss > Alfadublin, do ya remember > OEM (40mm) ?SS says "Oversize Ø 54mm system".
DO NOT close this thread.Please and thanks.Its a good and informative thread and its nice to read other peoples tuning/dyno experiences.I like.enjoy reading your posts and looking at your pics,so do many others too.

My exhaust is just a few pieces of stainless steel pipe lengths and bends cut and welded together to run from the turbo to the tail pipe.Nothing special in that. ;)

It is 65mm internal diameter pipework.My picture of it is a crap one,but I hope you get the idea of its size and bore.

Your bigger size pipework should free up more bhp and torque.Looks very nice too.Thanks-Pat. :)
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

It’s exactly what Alfadublin said….you have to check your mixture if its too lean or too rich! :rolleyes:

Lukas, my exhaust system it’s a lot like your, but was handmade and I don’t have the pre-kats only the main kat…it’s also also 55mm! ;)
I have more mods than you and less power in dyno :( …why…because on the last remap the guy didn’t check the mixtures with mixtures machine :tut: …was something like eye values (you know what I mean) :rant: …now when possible I have another person with specific machines to check all values real time when remaping…then I think I will see real improvements! :D :cool:
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

Its simple - your car is tuned by the factory for the best mix of torque and bhp. You have fitted a free flowing exhaust system but changed nothing else. Unless you try to do something to make the map your car runs on use the newly increased exhaust flow youll stay exactly wher you are. Gone are the days where OEM exhaust were cheaply made and flowed poorly. You cant just stick a straight through exhaust on a car and get a big increase any more and alfa systems are one of the best designed (decent manifolds etc)
IMO - you could have got the same result by simply removing the KAT...

You will notice any loss of torque more in general driving than any increase in bhp. a decrease of 10ftlb is more noticable than in ancrease of 10bhp
 

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Re: SSS (SuperSprintSucks) ?

daveg360 said:
The weather figures listed seem to be way out.
Man! Amazing! Your answer (URLs) impressed me so much that I can't put next word... :cheese: :cheese: :cheese: :cheese: !
Now I know that... I know nothing about tuning ;) .
 
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