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Discussion Starter #41
As Spiderserie4 says you have a "0 227 100 111" ign amp, which is supposed to go with a distributor with built in advance curve. The " 0 227 100 100" is basically just a transistor switch, with the dwell timing done by the ECU. I guess your distributor must have advance weights in it, but I've never seen a non-points distributor that isn't fixed advanced, so thats a new one. What does the wiring diagram in your handbook say about it ?
I don't have a handbook which is part of the problem - I'm working pretty blind, and it also sounds as though the whole set up between distributor/coil/plugs etc is non-standard.
What would be great is to have some idea of what to try to fix the problem - am I looking at a new distributor or can anyone see a way of making progress with what's already there?
At weekend I'll look over the connections to the Bosch Module as SS4 suggested, but beyond that I'm pretty stumped!
 

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This is the L-Jetronic version on the GTV6 circa 1981-1986.
View attachment 938096
and I believe that big alloy ecu box, Bosch 0 227 100 017 could be replaced by the Bosch 0 227 100 111 small unit, which "apparently" (he hasn't confirmed the number yet...waiting on that) is what brfc has...

that, I believe, is basically his ignition ecu, now (with the odd conversion to carbs)

If the wiring looks good under the 7 pin plug, and the 2 wire plug on the distributor..... then I'd be looking for a good used one of those 111 units.


I think that is where the problem might lie
 

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apparently that Bosch 111 (nla) can be exchanged for Bosch 123
you find those everywhere for not a lot of money

Bosch ignition modules.jpg

schematic here:
BIM 123.jpg
 

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So you should be able the trigger the module by carefully waving a screwdriver near the coil then. My money is on the advance mechanism being rusted up due to lack of protective cover around the distributor...
PS when I said 'coil' I meant the inductive sensor coil in the distributor, obviously not the main ignition coil - that would be daft.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
and I believe that big alloy ecu box, Bosch 0 227 100 017 could be replaced by the Bosch 0 227 100 111 small unit, which "apparently" (he hasn't confirmed the number yet...waiting on that) is what brfc has...

that, I believe, is basically his ignition ecu, now (with the odd conversion to carbs)

If the wiring looks good under the 7 pin plug, and the 2 wire plug on the distributor..... then I'd be looking for a good used one of those 111 units.


I think that is where the problem might lie
Yes, the unit I have is the 111 version
 

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Discussion Starter #47
So you should be able the trigger the module by carefully waving a screwdriver near the coil then. My money is on the advance mechanism being rusted up due to lack of protective cover around the distributor...
PS when I said 'coil' I meant the inductive sensor coil in the distributor, obviously not the main ignition coil - that would be daft.
Do you have a picture showing what I'm looking for in the distributor? So far, I've only been able to access the parts in the pic in #26
 

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Have you tried cranking the engine as it currently is - IE with the rotor arm removed, the distributor cap off, and the coil king lead removed from the cap and going directly to a grounded spark plug?
 

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Not sure I understand about the advance...What advance?
Everything has been replaced with induction pick up and the electronics take over ... no?
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Have you tried cranking the engine as it currently is - IE with the rotor arm removed, the distributor cap off, and the coil king lead removed from the cap and going directly to a grounded spark plug?
Not tried that, I'll add it to the list, thank you. If I get a spark, then that rules out a problem with the ecu, and points to a problem with the distributor, right?
 

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Not sure I understand about the advance...What advance?
Everything has been replaced with induction pick up and the electronics take over ... no?
I have a feeling (okay a guess) that there is still some kind of mechanical advance inside the distributor. The reason I say that is that the distributor has a vacuum advance can on the side. I am pretty sure that the '111' modules etc do not do advance, they are generic modules for any car engine. They do handle dwell, but this is just to ensure the coil they are designed for gets the correct amount of energy in it. The dwell 'angle' is really just a fixed charge-up time, much better solution than the variable charge-up time of points. What is the Bosch number on the distributor, it might shed some light on things.

PS The Alfa GTV6 distributor also has no points, and it has both a mechanical and vacuum advance element, so my guess may be correct. V6 vacuum advance curve

I had a distributor once where the vacuum advance bit stick on, occassionally, and it wouldn't start. Took me ages to figure it out.
 

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ah ok, yes with the vacuum can on the dizzy it probably does have something under the trigger arm....
brfc should see if a vacuum hose is attached, if it is, then suck on it to see what moves.
also lift off that 4 point thingy and see what is underneath.
 

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ah ok, yes with the vacuum can on the dizzy it probably does have something under the trigger arm....
brfc should see if a vacuum hose is attached, if it is, then suck on it to see what moves.
also lift off that 4 point thingy and see what is underneath.
If this is like the distributors I have rebuilt in the past, you have to remove the main shaft which involves removal of the distributor from the engine, and knocking out the drive pin from the drive dog, so I'd want to be super sure this was the fault before going on that journey.
 

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Not tried that, I'll add it to the list, thank you. If I get a spark, then that rules out a problem with the ecu, and points to a problem with the distributor, right?
I think so, but you need to make sure the fault isn't intermittent before drawing conclusions. The more tests you can think up, the more us lot on here like the challenge!
 

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basically I think we are overthinking this, pulling apart distributors to check for advance movements etc

His car ran fine then the next morning wouldn't start.
to me that is something simple, most likely electrical.
if you turn on the ign key, do you for instance have 12V reading between the coil+ (sometimes marked "15") and a good earth point?

The only mechanical thing I would test is the following: put the rotor back on then have someone crank the starter....see that the rotor is at least turning...if not, the shaft has sheared.
(you can also aim your smartfone at it, video mode, then crank.... if no helping hand is about)

The plug on that Bosch 111 looks like it has been through a war.....these obvious things have to be checked first...sometimes in that 7 pin plug, it is a simple matter of one pin being bent or pushed back and not making contact

Check the easy stuff first, then report back.
The cabling on that 2 wire plug at the distributor, the 7-pin Bosch plug on that "111", check for continuity between the 2 wire plug on the dizzy and that plug (see the diagram above to see which pin is which)

If that all pans out, perhaps get a new "111" or equivalent (as those things can't really be tested by us DIY'ers)
 

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Discussion Starter #56
I've removed the ecu and wired plug this morning (SS4, thanks for heads up about the thin wire spring clip, I definitely wouldn't have spotted that!).

On inspection, the connectors look clean and straight - photos below. The wiring looks ok too, apart from some exposed metal coming from the green wire which connects to the distributor. I'll wrap that in tape, and wrap the old rubber boot too when I put it back together.

When I'm checking the coil voltage, where should I attach the multimeter wires?
938240


938241


938242
 

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I agree, plug looks good, pins all clean.
the green with the exposed is probably a shielded wire. (wrap it if you can, but wouldn't make much difference if you can't, as long as no other wire is abraded)

checking voltage on coil from the plus (will be marked either + or 15) terminal to ground....with ignition key ON

coil.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Latest update: coil voltage is good, rotor arm on distributor is rotating, as is the plate below with the 4 lugs when the engine cranks.

If I reattach the distributor, I'm going to test each HT lead to spark plug in turn (only did plug 1 to discover no spark). How can I test the HT lead from coil to distributor?

Just to add to the frustration, one of the clips which secure the distributor cap has fallen off. It looks like I'll have to release the screw which holds it in place, then re-tighten. Just not sure my hands will bend to the angle needed to get to it!

Only good news is it's tipping down with rain outside, so a good excuse to spend an afternoon indoors!
 

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Ok good you have voltage at coil, without that we'd get nowhere!

I am just thinking, that dizzy cap securing clip that fell off might be a clue...if one clip was about to fall off, it might have been loose...if the cap was not on correctly you might not get spark as the rotor will/might not fire at the terminals in the cap.
So get that done first.

As for testing HT leads (you can test them all if you want) we can only do certain tests...
take off one lead at a time to test....saves you mixing them up;)

set your voltmeter to Kilo ohms (20 kOhms) and clip the ends securely to each end of a lead.....you will get a reading: let's just say 5500 ohms (or 5,5 k.Ohms)...now (and this is why crocodile clips on the Ohm meter are better than just holding them on) wiggle the lead around, the 5500 ohms reading should be rock steady...if it fluctuates, the lead is breaking down inside.
Roughly speaking a run of the mill lead will have about 5-8 k.Ohms per foot.
So that very long one will have a very high resistance, for sure....but do the wiggle test, especially moving that rubbed area of the lead.

But this test is just a rule of thumb. You only know what the leads should be when you have a new lead to hand, of identical length, to compare.
Even if your readings are all kind of OK, the lead could still be breaking down inside, as any lead does with age.
But let's get the car sparking first, before replacing the leads (which I would do,in fact and the rotor and the cap...it is all cheap stuff and all adds to smooth ignition for the next 50k miles!)
 

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Discussion Starter #60
I've secured the clip now and the distributor cap is stable. Still no spark when I turn the key though. :(

As I have new leads, I'm going to change them to check if that makes a difference. If not...:unsure:
 
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