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Discussion Starter #1
I had a bit of a puddle in the rear footwell last week, not only was the carpet floating but it was sinking too. Not amused. So today I've started the drying out process by stripping out the interior of the car. The carpets are now out and dripping dry very slowly. I'm not going to put them back in until they are bone dry and I've sorted the source of the leak. What I thought was only going to be the back footwell has turned out to be every section of the floorpan. Removal was quite straightforward and replacement should also be quite easy, no more than 90 minutes work I reckon.
First step was to disconnect the battery, I'm mucking about with airbag connections and don't want any unpleasant surprises!
Next item were the covers on the outside of the seat over the seat belt lower mount, unclip and slide up to remove, this exposes the mounting bolt which is undone followed by the two bolts in the seat rails at the back of the seats, tip up the seats and you have access to the electrical connections, pull the locking pins, remove the slide locks and they separate easily enough. With the headrest fully down and the seat folded forward both come out of the car. A little bit of force is needed to lift the rear seat squab, I've broken one clip but the other looks reusable. Once this is out remove the rubber door seals front and back and undo any exposed screws remove the plastic side trims. At the front the sill covers come off by popping out the bung at the front and removing the hidden screw (it's about the height of the bonnet release lever). The sill covers can then be lifted off. Next are four covers on the side of the centre console underneath which are 4 10mm bolts, undoing these allows the console to lift off the carpets. The B post covers have retaining screws that need to be undone and there are three plastic rivets that need removing at the back edge one the squab area. The rear section can then be lifted out. The driver's footwell carpet comes out after the clutch footrest is removed, there's one plastic rivet too on the cross member under the seat. Passenger footwell is easier as there's no footrest!
The job for this afternoon will be to mop the floorpan dry and then throw some old carpeting down to protect the exposed wiring. Then the seats can go back in and be reconnected before the battery is reconnected.
Before it all goes back together I'll also take the opportunity to replace the handbrake cables - they are a little worn but all this trip has to come out to do that job so it's probably worth doing now.
All the coins found under the carpet will help pay for that too! £7.80 under the drivers seat, 20, under the passenger and £1.05 under the rear squab!
When I find the source of the leak I'll spill the beans but it's not obvious yet! But it's gotta be the door seals, door bottom seals, something on the bulkhead, the zircon or the sunroof drains.... So many places to check!
Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the link, I've just put the interior back without the carpet and all's okay again. Footwells are currently dry so now I'll be checking that drain in the scuttle and taping some paper to the sills to see if water is getting in through the door seals or via the door innards.

Also sorted something else whilst I had the interior out - I'd always wondered what two extra (black!) wires were that some muppet had attached to a couple of fuses - via the fuse side of the fusebox were for. Now I know, flapping about under the centre console, under the gear lever, was a "Dice Electronics" gizmo for connecting iPods to stereos, plugs into the aerial line. Well it's out now and reception seems to have improved again after the aerial base replacement of a week earlier!

Job for this evening or Monday (Ormskirk Motorist tomorrow) will be some further investigation into the non functioning CD multiplayer!


Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Right. Some help from the experts needed I think! Spent half an hour trying to find the source of the leak spraying water over the sides of the car and on the windscreen scuttle area, car on a flat suface and on a slope (left to right) and not a drop. Went for a drive with the aircon on and nothing. Bone dry. Stopped at the garden centre on the way back and it ****ed down when we were in there, back to the car, parked level, and Andrea notices water coming in on her side, at the front of the door but from UNDER the door seal. Got home and dried it off and sure enough, spraying water on the roof, car leaning to the left provokes water ingress on the passenger side and leaning to the right on the drivers side.

The sunroof is the obvious culprit and it's not the odd drip but a positive flood. I've had look at an Alfa 159 manual I have and it says the sunroof has 4 drains with a one way valve? I'm off to clean the seal and treat it with some silicone spray in the hope of reviving it a little - it may be covered with grit that's causing it to fail to seal but has anyone else had this problem and, more importantly, found a cure?

Thanks for any tips!

Cheers

Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Further along but still no solution....

Right, I used a length of electricians earth lead cover to poke down the front drain tubes and it came to a pretty physical stop on each side which I'm assuming is the non return valve I mentioned earlier, I've blown down the pipe and some cruddy water came up as a result but I doubt the blockage is cured yet. What I can't do is force it incase the drain tube pops off the sunroof frame where I can't get at it.

Having made the assumption that the drains are clogged the next question is how is the water getting down to the floorpan and I now know it's overflowing the internal sunroof frame somewhere as there is water on the inside of the screen column trim on the passenger side (I haven't removed the drivers side yet but it's a safe assumption that it's also going to be wet) and the source of the problem.

So, the question I need answering now is where does the drain tube go? The length of pipe I can get down the drain tube seems to indicate that the blockage is about half way down the A pillar but draining into this area doesn't make sense to me - it's got to drop the water under the car. Perhaps it's in the scuttle area? But seeing as it's ****ing down again here I can't look just now. Anyone know?

Guy
 

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Are you sure it's not getting in through the doors, if the plastic liner has been disturbed behind the door card this can cause leaking.

My 159 leak was the windscreen scuttle drains blocked.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Are you sure it's not getting in through the doors, if the plastic liner has been disturbed behind the door card this can cause leaking.

My 159 leak was the windscreen scuttle drains blocked.
Absolutely 100% not the scuttle drains, these are clear on both sides. It is the sunroof that's the culprit, the drain pipes at the front are not doing what they are supposed to do, it's overflowing the inner sunroof frame and running down the inside of the A pillar, behind the door seal and exiting underneath the the plastic sill cover onto the floorpan. There's no water getting in via from the seals between the window mechanism carrier and the door frame.

I've just had the scuttle covers off and there's no sign of any sunroof drains in there. I'm going to try removing one of the front wheel arch liners to see if they show themselves in there or if they do indeed terminate in the A pillars.

Thanks for the suggestion though, all ideas are appreciated!

Next one please?

Guy
 

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Good luck:thumbup:

In my experience of sun roofs the drain usually ends up in the wheel arches, but that was on Vauxhalls.

If you find the ends of the drain the one way valve should allow you to force water/air up into the scuttle and free the blockage, maybe!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the suggestion but I suspect I'll try removing the valve (seen it on the ePer now) from the end of the pip when I find it, clean it and maybe put it back on. I may try extending the pipe with a wider diameter one so that I know I can clear it easily should they block again....

If anyone can confirm the pipe ends in the wheel arch I'd appreciate it!

Cheers

Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sorted. Shouldn't say that until I've washed the car though. And been in a heavy rainstorm.

Okay, if you've got a 159 with a sunroof you're going to have this problem sometime in the future so stop it before it happens. It's not possible to run a pipe through the length of the drain tube, there's a significant bend in there somewhere that'll stop any probe getting through. Use anything pointed and you risk puncturing the pipe and that could be a disaster.

The drain tube has a non return valve on the end to stop crud getting sprayed up the end and blocking it. Nice idea. But the tube terminates in the wheel arch, behind the liner so that's unlikely? The valve "design" consists of 4 triangular rubber flaps that don;t quite meet to allow water to flow out. Trouble is, the water brings crap with it which gets trapped in the valve and eventually blocks it. Badly. Eventually water builds up and overflows the sunroof frame and ends up on the floorpan underneath the carpet.

If you want to remove the non return valves the front ones end in the front wheel arch. Remove the front wheels, unscrew the arch liners and drop them out of the way. The valve can be seen in the top of the arch, close to the upper wishbone rear pivot point. Pulls off easily enough. A lot of water will drain out and you can then flush it out from the top.

I've kept the valves in case the pipes clog again from the bottom and can reinstall later if necessary.

Guy
 

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Pop the front passenger door cover off and the plate that holds all of the electrics etc and clean out the drain ports on the inside of the door. They get clogged up with crap and the door fills up when it rains, it then goes over the skin, in between the door card and into the car.
I did mine a few weeks ago as it was chronic. At some point the car had its window smashed and the door was still full of glass, mixed with dirt in the rain it formed a watertight seal.
Since I cleaned it all out I've not had a drop inside the car and it been through some torrential downpours.
 

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Good result:thumbup: and nice to get an update in the same decade (you know who you are):vs_lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Pop the front passenger door cover off and the plate that holds all of the electrics etc and clean out the drain ports on the inside of the door. They get clogged up with crap and the door fills up when it rains, it then goes over the skin, in between the door card and into the car.
I did mine a few weeks ago as it was chronic. At some point the car had its window smashed and the door was still full of glass, mixed with dirt in the rain it formed a watertight seal.
Since I cleaned it all out I've not had a drop inside the car and it been through some torrential downpours.
Thanks but I'm aware of the doors leaking but this wasn't the case this time. It was the sunroof.

Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Good result:thumbup: and nice to get an update in the same decade (you know who you are):vs_lol:
My pleasure!

Final update.

Rear wheels off, liners removed (and crud cleaned off them!). Rear sunroof drains are also fitted with the one way valves, they exit the body behind the rear wheels each side but infront of the back exhaust boxes. Actually, they're so close to the boxes one was stuck to the box and the other had melted off. Fortunately neither caused a fire or were blocked.

Washed the car this afternoon and leathered it dry. Battered the sunroof with water and the floorpans are dry. Happy days. Carpets are drying out with a heater and a dehumidifier so they'll go back in next weekend, weather permitting. Another 2 hour job.

Guy
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Spoke too soon. I was about to put the dry carpets back in this evening but decided to check it again with a kettle full of water. Passenger side still leaking onto the top of the headliner and down into the footwell so not a happy bunny. I've spent the evening dropping the headliner to see if I can trace it further and now I may have found a couple of other entry points but have created another issue that I'll start another thread for that. The wind deflector is sprung on each side to flip up when the roof goes back and the locating holes appear to be broken on the flat surfaces, any water getting onto this can drop onto the headliner. So, it's all Sikaflexed up and tomorrow I'll chuck another kettlefuls over it an see what happens.
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Discussion Starter #19
Oh the joys of Alfa Ownership!

I think the leaks are sorted out now, apart from the drain tubes being blocked there appeared to be a holes in the sunroof frame where the pivot points for the springs that raise the wind deflector are fitted. Sealed up with a bit of sikaflex and that appears to have cured that. Other issues remain with the sunroof now not playing at all but it's shut and no longer causing flooded carpets.

Carpets, are now dried out fully so I spent this afternoon refitting them and the car is now back together and looking great again.

Unfortunatley, when I put the key in the ignition I got a warning light and a message "Inertia Switch Intervention" with an orange fuel pump diagram with a line through it. First thought was the obvious one - it's the cut off switch under the passenger seat. Pressed it, no joy, pressed a little harder, broke the mounting and still no joy. Head scratching and a little research led me to the battery, removed the fusebox cover and pressed the little button on the cut off switch on there and job done, car started on the button.

Happy days, except now I need a new fuel cut off switch and may have to remove the seat again to fit a new one....

Joys of Alfa Ownership.

Guy
 
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