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Discussion Starter #1
So this past weekend there was occasion to stretch the wagons legs a bit. A pal with a toyota picked a fight and was terribly thrashed. After a few runs and on the way home, theres a long sweeping right hander which was taken at around 110km/h. Thereafter theres a dip and another stretch where it was given some stick again. When i came off the freeway i noticed the engine was sounding quite rowdy. Like a a loud tappet noise. It remained there for a while till we got home. it was 02h00 in the morning so didnt check again till the morning when it sounded rowdy on first start then quitened down to normal.

Any ideas on what caused this? Oil starvation cos of the sweeping bend? No oil pressure warnings came on. the oil level is fine. Could it need an oil service? The oil was changed about 5000kms ago according to the previous owner. Scared that something may break as it didnt sound healthy. :confused:
 

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what car is this? 156 V6?

New car, might as well do an oil change...also you never know if guys bother taking the time to change the filter caus its a mission to get to.

Also possible for tappets to get noisy if the viscosity of the oil is low, so if they filled it with the wrong oil then it could have thinned down too much when it got hot.
 

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Yes he probably dumped el cheapo castrol gtx in there. Busso engines can get quite hot so i dont think lekke ol gtx will stand upbto the challenge when pushed
 

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Discussion Starter #4
yup. 156 v6 wagon. Sounds on the mark chaps. Time for an oil change today. We knock off at 12h00 :D what oild would you guys suggest? And any tricks to get to the filter?
 

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Castrol Edge 10W60 is fine for a busso. Will need 5.5 litre or so.

Filter is a PITA. Stab a screw driver through it and turn haha.


EDIT: If you do lots of short trips then maybe use Edge 5W40. The spec for the 2.5 busso is 5W40 or 10W60 for 'sportive' use. So considering you're going into a highveld winter maybe go 5w40 if you do lots of cold starts and short trips.
 

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its just your lifters running "dry".

use a better quality oil.
 

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Arthur , is 5w40 not to thin as its no where near the cold European temps in SA .I do understand your reasoning . Our pistons clearances are also far greater in the busso 24v than the modern engines .
One of the Trofeo guys used this oil and his car smoked heavily under deceleration . He then changed oil between heats and only near the second half of the next heat did the car stop smoking . The edge sport is really good for these motors 10w60 .
Sometimes the noise can be a broken hydraulic lifter . That had happened a few times . Just get a stethoscope to isolate which one it is .
 

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Yep Kevin quite possibly.

I normally base my oil decisions around cold start protection primarily and I guess I over rate JHB winters relative to euopean.

I use the Edge Sport 10w60, especially consider my 156 has 260 000km on it and surely wants something a bit heavier.
 

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The 20w 50 shell still manages to get the lifters pumped . I used to use it on the 3.7 24 v but I found after lap 9 at kyalami in 35 degrees oil pressure was getting horribly low down to 2.8 bar at 4000rpm so that's when I switched to edge sport 10w 60 . Was a bit reluctant due using 100mm forge Ross pistons which have big clearances when cold. However was pleasantly surprised as oil consumption on a whole race weekend was about 800 ml and I gained a full bar higher in extreme heat at same rpm . I guess that's also down to mineral vs synthetic which lead to a smaller variance .
I also noticed a full bar difference between these oils on my other 3.0 24v race motor . Its dangerous sometimes especially on worn motors when guys get an idea to use some thing " lighter' like a 5w or 10 w as you can start glazing the bores and get excessively high oil consumption .
Strange case was actually with high mileage twinspark 16v motors that used to come in for service at Alfa Service Centre . The garage used to use selenia as this was specified in the book but the some cars that came for service in the 100k plus mileage suddenly started major huge oil in only 1000km after service . So he had to change back to the cheaper 15w 40 shell that solved this problem . Ironically this was the case when you could not use the manufactures spec . Hennie also figured that those motors that gave those problems were running on thicker oil put in by customers in previous services and now suddenly went back to the thin correct oil was the problem . So he was concluding that the engine needed to be using the same grade oil from the beginning and not to change it around as the rings bed in differently . Just interesting thoughts and views from some one who owned a garage for 40 years
 

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Find out if your oil pump is chain driven or gear driven. The chain driven pumps run of a sprocket on the front of the crank and slight play can cause it to slip and cause a horrible tappet noise. I had this on one of my previous bussos. No oil warnings either. First do an oil change, 10w60 recommended as the extra viscosity is a bonus in hit weather (slow driving when warming up is always recommended with whatever oil you have in anyway) but protection when hot is very good with this oil rating. If the problem persists, your car will need to come on a ramp so that someone can inspect the pulley nut while the engine is running.
 

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Only the busso v6 on 164 and 155 are gear driven oil pumps while the others 156 , 916 series on wards are chain driven .
As Ian correctly said if pump slips this normally results in bearing failure as well , not just dry lifter from no pressure .
Ironically my 3.7 which has just spent 3 months on the cold seas arrived here last week in Uk . Upon start up I have one lifter that's frightenly noisy and did not even pump up after five mins . Normally they do when these cars stand for a while but this one has me worried as you don't want to create a broken one and worse of it the ramp on my gta 2 spec cam profile is not sympathetic to the cam follower .
 

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Discussion Starter #14
:( oil change tomorrow. Got the oil. Will report back on the progress. Car has about 135k on the clock but the previous guy alleges the motor was swapped out with one thay has 38k on the clock. Thanks for the help so far:thumbs:
 

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Interesting I will try that but its says if it does not go away then its not the problem. However I have seen on a few twinsparks the tiny housing which the hydraulic lifter presses into break out around it . Let you know tomorrow . Good find . If I can isolate which lifter it is I will take cam cover over and rotate engine until valve is closed . I will then see if I can press lifter with my thumb or use magnet to pullet upwards to check for movement .
Out of interest if some of you not sure what the hydraulic lifter looks like then check into this link when I rebuilt mine . Took about four hours and a bucket of ice for my hand .
See link http://alfagtv6.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2643
 

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I tried this with a friend's car and it worked. It is tricky to let the revs rise slowly over a 15 second period but it works none the less. You will hear the difference by the 3rd or 4th cycle.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Good news chaps. Oil changed and she's purring like a kitten. much smoother also. I think the oil in there was old as the car was hardly used. An interesting point is that it had a black filter on with oil and olio printed on it and not those of the local variety. Is that the original filter or do the agents use those as replacement parts? Just curious...
 

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But on the flipside. Congrats! Its always a good feeling when something as simple as a oil change does the trick!

Did you put in 10-60? And did you take it for a proper blast again?
 
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