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3K views 44 replies 23 participants last post by  Gary Slegg 
#1 ·
Its not every day that a major motor manufacturer goes to the wall like Rover did some time ago and I can’t help feeling a bit sad at the dismissive reaction to this event particularly by the English themselves. :(
They produced some fine cars in their day and deserved a better end than this. :rant:

My favourite was the Rover SD1 – this looked so cool – the UK’s answer to the Citroen CX I always thought. They looked very nice decked out in their police role as well. :cool:





The mini of course was the first car for many and it was in one of these that I learned to drive. A bit like Alfa’s though – you could get a good one or bad one :rolleyes:



The frumpy P4 – not pretty but nevertheless had something nice about it that I can’t quite put my finger on right now. :confused:



The Rover P6 was far more elegant and was on my list as a classic until I bought the Daimler. ;)



The start of the rot set in with the Montego – a forgettable car and could be quite problematic.



Pity it could not last as this car the RD45 was due to replace both the 45 and 25 but alas it was not to be. :(

 
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#2 ·
I think most British Car fans are sad to see Rover go down, I certainly am, but to me it runs deeper than just Cars, I feel a bit dissapointed that so much of our industry is going the same way. :(

The trouble is the lack of interest in manufacturing runs so deep now in our society that I fear we are heading for a major problem. We can't run an economy based entirely on selling to each other things that we have bought of another country..... can we?
 
#4 ·
crit71 said:
I too am deeply sadened by rovers departure, but I must confess, I never actually owned one myself.
Not sure exactly what you mean by dissmisive like? Being an englishman myself i have not seen any evidence of this.
:eek:

I'm not sure how you could miss it - Clarkson used to slag rover off in every other word. Even shortly after giving an approving review of the ZT 260 :rolleyes:

But then rover didn't do them selves many favours :(

Personally, I quite like the old SD1 (got one), even the 827's OK (dad has one), & the ZT190 sounds OK for the real world.

Incidentally, if anyone knows someone inthe southwest of Engalnds who's looking for SD1 bit's, mine's going for spares or repair.
 
#7 ·
I think our industry has suffered because of our inherent higher costs due to our higher standard of living. We now live in a global economy and it is cheaper to build cars in thirld world countries who don't have our health & safety standards or high wages. We see the same happen to our service industries now.

The Montego was a fundamentallly good car built badly and never rectified, which was the story of Rover far too often.
 
#9 ·
My missus is on her second Rover 214, the first was on well over 120,000 miles when she sold it and it never let her down. Her current one is at 80,000 and the only thing to go wrong was when the bottom of the radiator rusted and fell off. Not once did they fail to start, or break down.

None of my cars, over the last 10 years, have been as dependable, problem-free, or as cheap & easy to maintain, as these two Rovers. If my Alfa proves to be anywhere near as good I'll be very, very happy.

I'll miss Rover, I really do hope one of the Chinese buyouts comes off and they can start production again.. only designing their own cars again, not buying in & re-badging other companies rubbish (CityRover anyone?).
 
G
#10 ·
You all seem to like the SD1...forgetting that this was the car that took Rover from engineering excellence with the 2000/3500 range back to the dark ages with a live rear axle (after the sublime De Dion of the Rover 2000), appalling electrics/paintwork/ front wheel shimmy from cheap struts...rust galore..water leaks....and it goes on and on. Apart from looking good the SD1 was a horror story. They tried to do it on the cheap..the Rover people warned the BL people not to do it, but were ignored and it all went downhill from there. The six cylinder engines were unreliable (2300/2600) Only the 3500 V8 was any good and that supped juice like crazy.

I only had one Rover, a 213 which was a Honda really. The engine was a gem, and I quite liked the car. We bought a low miles Montego 1.6 for my wife....worst mistake we ever made..what a load of old crap..engine out of a tractor..front wheel bearings failed every 16,000 miles, speedo failed..it had no engine breather fitted..the factory forgot to put one on, and charged us for the kit!!!!! ECU failed....rad header tank split...rust. What was good? it was roomy and had a big boot...but then so are my 164s and at least they are good to drive and better made. It was replaced with four Skodas one after another. They have all been fantastic little cars.

That being said I think the Rover 75/MGZT is just about the finest car they ever made, so I am very sad to see them go. I still fancy a ZT as my next car.

AlfaLincs

164TS
164Super 24Valve
Skoda Felicia Estate 1.3 turbo (Oh alright then...its not a turbo) :lol:
 
#11 ·
AlfaLincs said:
You all seem to like the SD1...forgetting that this was the car that took Rover from engineering excellence with the 2000/3500 range back to the dark ages with a live rear axle (after the sublime De Dion of the Rover 2000), appalling electrics/paintwork/ front wheel shimmy from cheap struts...rust galore..water leaks....and it goes on and on. Apart from looking good the SD1 was a horror story. They tried to do it on the cheap..the Rover people warned the BL people not to do it, but were ignored and it all went downhill from there. The six cylinder engines were unreliable (2300/2600) Only the 3500 V8 was any good and that supped juice like crazy.
The Vitesse wasn't a bad bit of kit. ;) :)

When they developed the SD1, why didn't they use the tried and tested Triumph 6 cylinder engines? I guess it was all down to inhouse rivalry of the sort that had the Jaguar engineers deliberately making the XJ40 so that the Rover V8 wouldn't fit... :eek:
 
G
#12 ·
"The Vitesse wasn't a bad bit of kit. ;) :)

When they developed the SD1, why didn't they use the tried and tested Triumph 6 cylinder engines? I guess it was all down to inhouse rivalry of the sort that had the Jaguar engineers deliberately making the XJ40 so that the Rover V8 wouldn't fit... :".



Yes the Vitesse was a fine piece of kit..when you could get all the bits running together :D :D

The 2300/2600 Rover six cylinder engines did indeed use the Triumph 6 cylinder block, but had a single overhead-cam head grafted onto it. They were quite powerful at the time, and I had a trip to Sheffield from Leeds in a 2600 in 1980 and it felt fast and comfortable from the passenger seat....but...the unit was not properly tested and suffered oil starvation problems which killed most of em at fairly low miles. I do seem to remember that Triumph sixes sometimes seized the front cylinder. Trying to get even more power out of the old dear just made the problem worse (I took my driving test in my dads Triumph 2000 so I know and love that old six cylinder engine well...much more class than turning up for your test in a Mk1 Escort or a rusty Mini like everyone else did at the time :lol: :lol: :lol: )

Trouble is the SD1 SHOULD have been an absolute cracker of a car, it just wasn't unfortunately.

Alfalincs

164TS
164Super 24Valve
 
#14 ·
AlfaLincs said:
You all seem to like the SD1...forgetting that this was the car that took Rover from engineering excellence with the 2000/3500 range back to the dark ages with a live rear axle (after the sublime De Dion of the Rover 2000), appalling electrics/paintwork/ front wheel shimmy from cheap struts...rust galore..water leaks....and it goes on and on. Apart from looking good the SD1 was a horror story. They tried to do it on the cheap..the Rover people warned the BL people not to do it, but were ignored and it all went downhill from there. The six cylinder engines were unreliable (2300/2600) Only the 3500 V8 was any good and that supped juice like crazy.
From the reviews I've seen, the live axle actually wasn't significantly worse then the P6's arrangement. certainly, I had no problems, tho' with only a 2300 auto there wan't that much opportunity.


The straight 6 was developed from the triumph 6, but no significant parts were interchangeable, & they weren't even much more powerful - believe the 2.3 & 2.6 were not tuned up to capacity, to fit in with the 3500 power output.

It's an unfortunate reality that car's need to be built to a budget to be practical. (look at the MG SV) :eek:

The big difference between Alfa & Rover is that Alfa have got over their problems a little better, while Rover never could. Why is open to debate
 
#16 ·
Hi guys

Not sure if anyones seeing this thread any longer, but have just found it. As a ZTT owner it was gutting that the company went under (and not just because the residuals took a 2000 quid hit) but that if the engineers had been given the go ahead, they might have turned it round.

The TF outsold every other 2 seater put together year on year until they shut the line down, the ZR outsold both Saxo VTR/VTS and had the ZT a BMW badge on the front they would have to put a third shift on the line to keep up with demand.

The new ZS/45 was essential and was shaping up to be special, but farting about with V8 sports cars and breaking land speed records and not telling anyone was purely down to 4 divots who hadnt a clue.

As far as Im concerned, rover was a dead dog that didnt know it yet, but MG had the ability to be something special...

Rant over
 
#18 ·
I heard that Nanjing, rather than employ some of the redundant Rover workers to dismantle the production lines as they 'promised' to do, have, instead, shipped over a load of their own Chinese workers to do the job. :rolleyes: At the moment I cannot see any production restarting over here if that's their attitude. :mad:
 
#19 ·
Hello again...

There is all sorts of rumours about but the crux of it seems to be...SAIC have the property rights over the 75 and 25, but not the MG versions. Nanjing have the production lines but no legal right to use them, and no-one knows who owns Powertrain, who make the K and KV6 engines.

ZS/45 stuff all went back to Honda

There is work going on (believe it or not, its just what 'informed sources' are saying) to restart producton of ZT and TF at Longbridge by the GB Sports Car company, Nanjings partner in the UK, but Nanjing have so far failed to pay the balance of cash for the company to the administrators, PriceWaterhouseCoopers, which may mean the GBSCC are hunting round for further backers...the poo continues to hit the fan.

The main thing is Nanjing own what there is of the new ZS, of which there were several off-tooling prototypes and a lot of tooling is already bought and available.

All to play for, but Im still getting an Alfa next, cos even if production restarts theres no guarentee it'll not stop again three months later!

Thats the best I can work out

Regards

Jim
 
#20 ·
Alfaguy said:
My favourite was the Rover SD1 – this looked so cool – the UK’s answer to the Citroen CX I always thought. They looked very nice decked out in their police role as well. :cool:



good god :eek: :eek: thats took me back abit! meny meny years ago (i would of been around 3 to 6 years old back then) i remember my dad haveing the sd1 Vitesse! very stunning looking moter she was too, i use to like all the gadjets in it :)
 
#22 ·
I find pictures of run-down/abandoned factories quite haunting. I think it's because you associate factories with production, growth, optimisium, new things...not abandonment. I also have the same reaction to disused docks etc. They make me feel uncomfortable, yet I'm oddly drawn to them, at the same time.

g
 
#26 ·
My dad had 2 P6's when I was a sprog, I remember when we used to go on hols he'd have the spare wheel on the boot for touring. One was brown and the other was bright yellow, classic 70's colours.

I used to work for a precision contract engineering company programming CNC lathes and Machining Centres. I left that industry because I couldn't see it being a viable long term career in this country.

Technologies that we use are available to anybody and that's why countries like China and India can buy in a turnkey solution to produce parts on contract that are often equal to the quality of components produced in the UK. Where they differ is labour rates, they can pay someone a lot less to operate a machine than we can, hence we are less competitive in the global marketplace.

Yes, the products we make are generally of far higher quality because we take more pride in our work, but the people buying the parts for various industries (rail, aerospace, MOD) only want parts that meet the specification they designate. Due to our pride we tend to overengineer parts, this is something I saw firsthand whilst working in the industry.

We often saw equivalent parts from India and China that were obviously of inferior quality but still met the specified tolerences and specifications of the design.

Engineering has been in recession for about 4 years now and I doubt it will ever recover, as we become primarily a service sector led country and our exports fall off more and more prices will continue to rise, I envisage that in years to come we can see prices in this country being comparable with countries like iceland where everything is imported thus the economic balance is askew.

Even with massive government backing (like Rovers situation) we still can't compete in the global marketplace and sadly this is why our industries will continue to decline.

How do you turn back the clock? Simple... Abolish minimum wage, it's the only thing we have control over in this country to be able to meet the demands of a competitive industrial market. We all know this will never happen though, so we must all be resigned to the fact that we will lose our skills, lose our industrial heritage and become a nation of servile consumers.

Sad but true...
 
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