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.....I know its probably never going to happen, not in my lifetime anyhow but just think of the money this would save if we returned the death penalty.

One case this weekend highlights the girl from Reading who was abducted, tortured, raped and stabbed to death by that gang of six men, as well as leaving her friend for dead. Surely in cases like this the only sensible thing is to execute these people.

It must cost this country £B's to house and keep these degenerates until they are due for release, these six are in their early 20's and they got life with a minimum of 27 yrs each, put a figure on that and then treble it to get a rough idea this will cost us.

I agree, there have been miscarriages of justice in the past which have been regretable but surely in this day and age of DNA and where there is absolutely no doubt they should be put to death.

If I had my way all convicted Terrorists, Serial Killers/Paedophiles/Murderers/Rapists would be killed and the choice of which way it should be done left to the relatives of their victims should they wish to be involved.

Personally I'd torture the [email protected] myself first before getting down to the business of the execution.

What method would you go for, some of America's finest or even bring back some of our own methods from the middle ages. I know what I'd choose for them. !!!!!
 

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ASCARI said:
.....I know its probably never going to happen, not in my lifetime anyhow but just think of the money this would save if we returned the death penalty.

One case this weekend highlights the girl from Reading who was abducted, tortured, raped and stabbed to death by that gang of six men, as well as leaving her friend for dead. Surely in cases like this the only sensible thing is to execute these people.

It must cost this country £B's to house and keep these degenerates until they are due for release, these six are in their early 20's and they got life with a minimum of 27 yrs each, put a figure on that and then treble it to get a rough idea this will cost us.

I agree, there have been miscarriages of justice in the past which have been regretable but surely in this day and age of DNA and where there is absolutely no doubt they should be put to death.

If I had my way all convicted Terrorists, Serial Killers/Paedophiles/Murderers/Rapists would be killed and the choice of which way it should be done left to the relatives of their victims should they wish to be involved.

Personally I'd torture the [email protected] myself first before getting down to the business of the execution.

What method would you go for, some of America's finest or even bring back some of our own methods from the middle ages. I know what I'd choose for them. !!!!!
As an American, I am disgusted by my government's disregard for human life (and I don't mean just the death penalty...). We are one of the only industrialzed nations in the world with the death penalty and the only one that executes children and the mentally ill. Politicians love the death penalty because they can appear to be tough on crime without actually doing anything about it. The emphasis seems to be on revenge rather than rehabilitation, and most forms of execution in the States cause extreme and agonizingly slow deaths which often don't even come because so many have been botched. Yes, it costs money to keep dangerous criminals off the streets, but when society begins to stoop to the level and mentality of criminals it cheapens the value of life and the values we supposedly stand for. And if none of these arguments hold any weight then consider the fact that literaly dozens of people have been wrongly executed in the United States - if even one person is put to death wrongly then the whole system should be abolished.

When Bush was governor of Texas he put people to death faster than any other governor in the history of the US (over 150 people!), earning him the nickname "the Texecutionor". This utter disregard for the value of human life may help to explain how he was so easily able to declare war on a country that had nothing to do with 911, Al Queda or WMD (his stated reasons), leading to the deaths of over 2300 brave young American soldiers and at least 30,000 innocent Iraqis. It also may help to explain how he was able to allow all the atrocities we saw on TV from Abu Graib and Guananemo Bay not only to occur, but also to continue, with not one person of rank taking responsility. Not even the Geneva Conventions are of value to him! Each and every life is precious and should be treated as such - even (or most especially) the criminals who show no respect for human lives themselves.....
 
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If killing someone is illegal, how can the state
then be allowed to kill/torture someone?
It's Sun/Daily Mail logic.

Given the number of ****-ups by the British
justice system over the last 30 years there
would be no way to appeal a death sentence
that had been carried out. Even with DNA evidence.


In a 21st century world there needs to be another
way to deal with criminals apart from exacting revenge
on them. That's why in a civilised country the victims
do not stand in judgement.

Way to deal with terrorist: Try and address any percieved
or real injustice they have so that their supporters just dry up.
No supporters, no money, public more likely to pass info
to the authorities.
(Also the religion in terrorism today is much more disturbing
than previous 70s political terrorism. Should we ban religion?)


Paedophiles: 90% of abusers are not strangers, they are
family members or friends of the family. The press never
report this because it is unpalitable. These people are never
going to be "cured" so maybe they need to be sectioned
and controlled.

If the death sentence really was the answer to the problem of
violent crime, why is there still violent crime in the US?!
 

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Don't forget that we have an incompetent and morally corrupt police force that sets itself above the law and thinks it acceptable to make monkey noises while prisoners die of neglect on the floor of police stations. It's a bad subject for me but the more restrained justice is, the better for all of us.
 

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I don't have any problem morally with the death penalty. However I am against it because it simply doesn't work as a deterrent. The American states with the death penalty have higher murder rates than those without it. Also I don't think anyone at the time of a murder actual think about the penalty they with be required to pay if caught. Like most criminals they think they'll get away with it, so any penalty does not make a difference.
 
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Just FYI:


http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGACT500062006



Since 1973 122 US prisoners have been released from death row after evidence
emerged of their innocence of the crimes for which they were sentenced to death.
There were six such cases in 2004 and two in 2005. Some prisoners had come
close to execution after spending many years under sentence of death.
Recurring features in their cases include prosecutorial or police misconduct; the
use of unreliable witness testimony, physical evidence, or confessions; and inadequate defence representation. Other US prisoners have gone to their deaths
despite serious doubts over their guilt.



The Death Penalty in the USA

* 60 prisoners were executed in the USA in 2005, bringing to 1,004 the total number executed since the use of the death penalty was resumed in 1977.
* Around 3,400 prisoners were under sentence of death as of 1 January 2006.
* 38 of the 50 US states provide for the death penalty in law. The death penalty is also provided under US military and federal law.
 

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Though not related only to Bush's stance on the death penalty (it also extends to the quagmire he's created in Iraq, his treatment of the homeless, children left behind by his "no child left behind act", etc), I recently saw a very nice home made "MTV" version of Pink's "Dear Mr. President" posted on YouTube. The link is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FF0cS9s6Aw
 

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I'm off on one now - we do have a de facto death sentence. Amnesty International reports that over 1000 people have died in police custody in the UK with not a single police office successfully convicted in relation to these deaths. Allow the buggers to do it legally and we'll all pay the price.
 
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wordsmythles said:
I'm off on one now - we do have a de facto death sentence. Amnesty International reports that over 1000 people have died in police custody in the UK with not a single police office successfully convicted in relation to these deaths. Allow the buggers to do it legally and we'll all pay the price.

Makes you wonder why some Sunday newspapers are more
interested printing 9 pages about how some fat, ugly politician
shagged his secretary.

N.
 

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Frankly, compared with Tony Blair's appallingly bent fund raising and the high level if incompetance in the cabinet, Prescott is an irrelevance. And the thought of him on the job is truly disturbing.
 
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ASCARI said:
h

Personally I'd torture the [email protected] myself first before getting down to the business of the execution.
You've just shown your real feelings...revenge and nothing more. This is exactly why we shouldn't have a death penalty.

By your own thinking you would be next in line after torturing the accussed:tut:

Whilever there is one miscarriage of justice we should never have a death penalty in the "civilised" world...which then casts doubt on certain aspects of the US:rolleyes:

wrinx
 
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I don't believe in the death penalty, on moral grounds and for the reason that there's no going back after a **** up. However, I think there should be harsh, and I mean harsh, regimes for prisoners serving time for particularly bad crimes. If their time in prison is hell and they wish they were dead, tough sh*t! Oh, and life should mean life!
 
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People sending out all that SPAM
should have harsh prison sentances
too. And have all their money/homes/cars
confiscated, like drug dealers.
:)
 
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...and people who cut me up evey morning on the Tesco roundabout...hangings too good for them!

...and while we're at it, people who drive Nissan Micras...hung, drawn and quartered :mad:

wrinx
 

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Discussion Starter #17
....Just posted a long reply which may have timed-out or came up as invalid thread or something or other. Anyway here's a shortened version as I'm not going there twice. :)

We all know Bush is no saint, even before he was elected we were told he would take the US and possibly their allies to war, but he is a christian who prays to God everyday or so he says, how do you work that one out. ?

I firmly believe that you can live in a civilised country that carries out the death penalty, the country will be a lot more wealthy for it.

I'm fully aware that the death penalty is no deterant, miscarriages of justice either genuine or through corruption etc etc etc have resulted in much regretable innocent deaths, but I still know that there are some criminals that are not mad, they have admitted their crimes, and they have said they will re-offend on their release, for these few they must pay the ultimate price.

Wrinx, you have me painted as some large black hooded medieval executioner with the biggest chopper out there (trying to keep it clean ;) ) but you have me wrong. What we must realise is that no one can even begin to understand what those two girls went through that night, possibly the police officers who visited the scene or recovered her body may get close and my guess is they would be in favour of returning the death penalty because of this. Would you be of the same opinion if that girl was your daughter heaven forbid this. ?

You say I would be next in line for killing these people but you misunderstand me, I am talking legalised execution where the Govt. appoints an executioner to carry out the killing legally, Albert Pierrepoint, our last executioner hung god knows how many murderers and he died in the 90's I believe, when he started he firmly believed in hanging but before he retired he was against it.

What I have learned from this thread is that there are so many other avenues to address before this could ever be introduced and this is why I'm of the opinion it will never be brought back.

The British public (IIRC 75-80%) would vote this back like a shot but it is the politicians who would never allow us this vote as they know it would be reintroduced and for any government not just the current one it would be a minefield.

Finally I say, Hang them, shoot them, electrocute them, inject them, gas them or whatever when they have addmitted it, DNA and forensics point to irrefutable evidence against them, they say they will do the same again on release, and if the families of the victims want to choose which way they go let them choose.

I dont mind my taxes going to any worthwhile causes but it annoys me when my money is keeping lowlife such as these and others in luxury some might say, read an article last week on Belmarsh Prison, apparently its a hellish existance for the prison officers that work there but a life of luxury if your'e an inmate, and if your'e a "celebrity inmate" there's no limits . :mad:

Six men get 27 yrs. each but in real terms they'll probably never get out, all in early 20's. Cost of keep I'd say a conservative 75k a year each. Lets say they live to be 75, do the maths and you will arrive at a very very big number with lots of 0's on the end of it.

I wish we could just do the sensible thing. !!!!!!. I bet if you asked any of the six and gave them the figures they'd say "ok then lets get it over with", providing they had a modicum of inteligence that is.
 

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I do hear you Ascari, and I can see a lot of your points.

However, there is no evidence whatsoever that the girl's deaths (or indeed others) would have been saved by the death penalty. The crime would still have been committed. Most Criminal do not think they will get caught so any penalty is not relevent to them.

I personally would have a far harsher regime for murderers, no parole for starters, no Sky, computers, visitors, 2 hours exercise a day then on your jack jones in a cell. they reject societys values by the nature of their crimes so should be stripped of its pleasures and benefits.
 
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ASCARI said:
I dont mind my taxes going to any worthwhile causes but it annoys me when my money is keeping lowlife such as these and others in luxury some might say, read an article last week on Belmarsh Prison, apparently its a hellish existance for the prison officers that work there but a life of luxury if your'e an inmate, and if your'e a "celebrity inmate" there's no limits . :mad:

Six men get 27 yrs. each but in real terms they'll probably never get out, all in early 20's. Cost of keep I'd say a conservative 75k a year each. Lets say they live to be 75, do the maths and you will arrive at a very very big number with lots of 0's on the end of it.

I wish we could just do the sensible thing. !!!!!!. I bet if you asked any of the six and gave them the figures they'd say "ok then lets get it over with", providing they had a modicum of inteligence that is.


Hmm... if wastage of money is your issue, try and look
at all the huge corporations that get away with paying
jack-**** in taxes every year. Even though they are making
HUGE profits. (Newscorp for one.) (Mostly showing
voyeristic crime shows, by coincidence.)

The amounts you are talking about are NOTHING
in comparison with corporate fiddles at the tax payers'
expense.

If all that tax was collected then maybe we could
use it to build the type of prisons that these crims. deserve:
Secure, cheap, drug fee and easier to work in for the prison staff.
 

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Just think what you're saying. You want to kill people because it's too expensive to keep them alive. I reckon you need a serious period of reflection.
 
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