[Matt GTV]

I am wondering if it would be possible to retro fit a factory sunroof?

With all original drain pipes, switch, motor, headlining, seals, glass panel etc, I have all the parts. I am presuming the roof section was already pressed in the factory (or before) so are there any after-market installers who could do this? I am not interested in anything non-standard, so no webasto stuff etc. I simply want to fit a standard sunroof.

If anyone has looked into this then please share.

Regards, Murray.

 

[pkr]

Two different part numbers for the roofs. One ( 60607801 ) marked E400 ( sunroof ).

I have a photo here of the inside of a non sunroof roof -

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums.../2014-06-19_10-26-45_DSC_0007_zpsbe411213.jpg

As you have the sunroof, you may be able to ascertain if the standard non sunroof roof has the mounting points for the sunroof and is just missing the hole.

If you still have access to the car from which you got the sunroof, you may want to see if you can cut out either the part with the hole or the whole roof ( by cutting through the pillars ).

Cutting out the part with the hole would give the bodyshop or whoever a pattern and dimensions to work to and show them exactly how to do it.

The other option would be for a bodyshop to cut out your existing roof and replace it with the roof from the donor car. This would obviously mean painting as well. However, it may be easier and cheaper than trying to cut a hole to factory dimensions and fold the corners exactly.

Perhaps someone with a sunroof could post a detailed photo of how the metal is formed in the sunroof aperture ...

 

[sraouf]

Just be aware It might effect the cars value as some people would hesitate to buy a GTV with a retrofitted sunroof due to the risk of leaks and wind noise.

 

[Matt GTV]

Cutting out the part with the hole would give the bodyshop or whoever a pattern and dimensions to work to and show them exactly how to do it.

The other option would be for a bodyshop to cut out your existing roof and replace it with the roof from the donor car.

Good thinking pkr. I still have the sunroof car so will remove the headling and have a look.

Just be aware It might effect the cars value as some people would hesitate to buy a GTV with a retrofitted sunroof due to the risk of leaks and wind noise.

I know some sunroofs have given owners loads of trouble although I personally have never had a problem with them. Keeping the drain tubes clear helps.

 

[Matt GTV]

As you have the sunroof, you may be able to ascertain if the standard non sunroof roof has the mounting points for the sunroof and is just missing the hole.

Looks like all the holes are there in the standard car. There are 6 mounting points of the sunroof frame to the roof via brackets etc. Also, the middle support across the roof would be removed of the standard car and the frame incorporates a new support.

The other option would be for a bodyshop to cut out your existing roof and replace it with the roof from the donor car. This would obviously mean painting as well. However, it may be easier and cheaper than trying to cut a hole to factory dimensions and fold the corners exactly.

The difficulty of this is in folding the roof metal around a radius to make a good seal (see photo).
Everything else is a fairly simple install (frame, motor, drains etc)

 

[pkr]

The difficulty of this is in folding the roof metal around a radius to make a good seal (see photo).
Everything else is a fairly simple install (frame, motor, drains etc)

I thought that may be the case from what remembered about the sunroof aperture on my wife's old 146. I think you'd be looking at a lot of man hours for a panel beater to form those corners.

Are you going to consider transplanting the whole roof?

 

[Matt GTV]

Are you going to consider transplanting the whole roof?

pkr - you mentioned cutting at the pillars. I was thinking of just a 1" clearance around the sunroof aperture. In the receiving car there will be space on the underside of the roof between the sunroof frame and the roof to reinforce with a 1" wide steel plate, (certainly front & back, sides a bit more tricky). Basically two welds underneath and then a thinner weld on top - ground down. See photo.

The welds will only support the metal from the donor car which is absolutely minimal, it is just the shape of the aperture for the already supported sunroof to slide into, so I would not be stressing the new welds or affecting the structural integrity at all. I have an excellent aircraft welder at work who would be up for the job.

Do you reckon there are other advantages to swapping the whole roof over?

Cheers

 

[krisp]

Have you considered how the sun roof cassette is supported, are there any additional stiffeners on a car with a sunroof?
Comparison of the two roof structures is very important.

 

[pkr]

The problem I see with just welding in the hole ( ! ) is one of distortion. What you really don't want is distortion effects on the rest of the roof.

Brazing it in may be a better option than welding and the lower temperatures may help getting a good finish.

I'm not really an expert on welding/brazing. I do know there are methods to limit or drastically reduce the distortion but it's something to bear in mind.

Doing the whole roof is also problematical. You'd need to remove all the glass and the 'C' pillar itself could be a challenge. And you'd need a lot more paint.

It's a bit 6 of 1 ...

If you went for just welding in the hole, you probably don't need the reinforcing plate. A better option may be to use a joggler. A joggler will put a step in the edge of one piece of metal and the other piece will then sit on the recess. Joggling tools aren't too expensive and are easy to use.

A video paints a thousand words : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utM2HOQWEDs

EDIT : You'll need to measure the thickness of the steel in the roof ( measure the exposed edge on the donor roof sunroof hole ) as the joggling process is limited by the capacity of the joggling tool.

 

[Matt GTV]

More like this then (see photo). For weld read braze or whatever the maestro at work comes up with. The top weld might not even be required.

@krisp The sunroof is supported by internal brackets etc that will all transfer onto a standard car from the donor (post #5)

 

[Matt GTV]

Jogglers (lovin' the name) seem to max out at 1.2mm sheet thickness.

 

[pkr]

That's it.

If you want to consider the whole roof, show your friend at work the workshop manual vol 2 section 70 page 260 to 264. Once the windows are out, it doesn't look too difficult. Interestingly, the seam between the roof and pillars are brazed - not welded. That will almost certainly be to reduce distortion. If that's the way ahead, you may want to get a professional to remove the windows as per the manual see Vol 2 s 70 p 74 to 84.

The possibility of breaking the glass has to be a significant issue though.

 

[Matt GTV]

Thanks pkr as always.

I'll do a test run on another car I have access to before going for it on my own GTV.

My next project after this will be the long overdue (for me) GTV Cup Holder......

 

[spankdanny]

Swapping roofs would be a major undertaking. Even getting the glass out without damage is difficult. I recently tried on 2 GTVs I was breaking and both windscreens slightly cracked even with a special tool and being very careful. The side windows were a non starter and I gave up.

 

[Dansolo]

This sounds super complicated , would it be simpler to buy a car with a sun roof or is it more of technical exercise ?

 

[Matt GTV]

This sounds super complicated , would it be simpler to buy a car with a sun roof or is it more of technical exercise ?

Nah, Project Cup Holder will be the true test of our technical expertise :wobble:

 

[pkr]

Nah, Project Cup Holder will be the true test of our technical expertise :wobble:

You're on your own with that one! :biglaugh:

 

[Dansolo]

What about cruise control , that would be an excellent addition rather than a hole in the roof that will rattle & leak.:thumbup:

 

[pkr]

What about cruise control , that would be an excellent addition rather than a hole in the roof that will rattle & leak.:thumbup:

Probably extremely easy with a CF3 V6 or a JTS.

Just add some wires and a stalk. Clutch switch is already in place. The only difficulty would be accommodating the hidden parts of the stalk in the cowl as there is very limited space in there.

I say 'probably' because there is a slim chance that the ECUs fitted to the 916 differ in Bosch firmware from the equivalent 156/GT/147/166 models. But that is very unlikely I'd say.

There may be aftermarket systems for both 'fly-by-wire' throttle and earlier cable throttle systems but that becomes a lot more involved.

I did once see a post on the internet that the M2.10.4 ECU ( P1 TS ) could do it by utilising the idle control motor once the correct wiring and stalk were fitted. However, I've lost the reference to that posting and from what I've seen of the M2.10.4 internally, I doubt the veracity of it.

 

[spankdanny]

Cruise control - different lenghts available
- full fitting instructions
- no messing about with complicated bits
you don't really understand