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Discussion Starter #1
Hello there.

Water pump is fairly noisy in my series 3 and am going to change I've been informed that timing belts would best to be done at the same time and that tensioners should be changed when the belts are done.

I plan on getting the parts from Turin and fitting myself. I'm after a cheat sheet of tools required as this is my first 16v. I have sockets and spanners but there are several special tools listed in the service manual and am unsure if they are really required.

Hopefully won't be too scary, the coolant hasn't been flushed correctly and hopefully there hasn't been too much damage done.

I've gone through the other posts in regards to this on AO and I'd just like to double check I'm not missing anything as I'd like to be able to complete this is one weekend if it's at all possible.

Thanks
Dom.
 

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Here you go
Set the engine to TDC firing on No1 cylinder- 'T' on flywheel and rotor arm points to no1, and timing marks on sprockets (both sides) should be as follows-

Inlet sprocket (top) has 2 notch marks at 6 O-clock, and exhaust sprocket (bottom) has 1 notch mark at 12 O-clock pointing up the middle of the two notches on the inlet sprocket above it.

Do No1 and 3 side belt first (drivers side on RHD car). Release tensioner nut, pull tensioner back and re-lock nut up. Change both belts keeping the timing marks set. You may need to devise a tool for turning/holding the sprockets by their holes (perhaps lenght of wood with 2 large bolts put through)- DONT USE A SCREWDRIVER ON TEETH.

Release tensioner nuts to tension belts, and then tighten up nuts a bit.

Turn engine over by hand a couple of times by using a spanner etc on the crank pulley nut, and re check timing marks above.

Now turn the engine over by hand until the triangle mark on flywheel shows and the other marks ( either 'T', or triangle) on one sides timing sprockets are in line. THIS IS DONE ONE SIDE AT A TIME- BOTH SIDES WILL NOT ALL LIGN UP TOGETHER.

Loosen and retighten tensioner on that side. Repeat for other side by turning engine until marks as above line up.

Turn over engine again by hand, and finally re check the TDC and main notch marks all still line up correctly after the belts have settled.

NOTE- Everyone recommends changing the tensioner and idler wheels too!!- The idlers are very easy, but the tensioners need to be pressed off- can be done with a good vice.
 

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You forgot something mate !
The most frustrating job of this process is taking out the bolts that hold the timing covers in place !

The front ones are easy to remove ! but the rear ones ? Bloody hell ! Who thought it was a good idea to put those bolts right behind the bolt of the crank mount ?
Nothing fits in there ! You need to do it 1mm at a time, turning your spanner the other side each time !

Thankfully is that there is only 1 bolt on each side, but whatever you do, dont remove the crank bolt on the block to make space !
 

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Bloody bolts, at some point i just left them out, it wasn't worth the time and cursing every time i had to take out the covers.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
excellent info guys, it really gives me confidence! so the timing belt kit wouldn't include the tensioners? Are they not available on a kind of metal mount? I presumed you changed the whole thing. there should be 2 idlers and 2 tensioners? Or am I horribly confused?
 

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4 tensioners mate.
2 just bolted in and the other 2 pressed on a metal mount and bolted on the heads.

If you want to change those, they come prety expensive, plus you will need a hydraulic press to remove the old ones from the mounts and put the other ones back in.
See if they need changing first.
I bought mine for 15 euro each from SKF Bearings.
Dealership wanted around 50 + VAT for each !
 

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Who thought it was a good idea to put those bolts right behind the bolt of the crank mount ?
yep AR engineers made some very accessible areas for small bolts.:lol:

try the back plate with the small nut just on the underside. Took me 15 mins just trying to find where it was attached.
You need the smallest head spanner and can only turn it 1mm at a time also.

Luckily this time I'm removing my engine so should make it much easier .
 

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The 2 10mm bolts on the covers :lol:

I have a "special" spanner for this kind of job, the balance shaft tensioner bolt on a 16v ts is in an equally brilliant location under the a/c compressor ;)

On the belt rollers, the 2 fixed idlers, easy as you said but I was confused by the tensioners, are they really fitted in such a way that destruction is the only way to replace them?
 

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4 tensioners mate.
2 just bolted in and the other 2 pressed on a metal mount and bolted on the heads.

If you want to change those, they come prety expensive, plus you will need a hydraulic press to remove the old ones from the mounts and put the other ones back in.
See if they need changing first.
I bought mine for 15 euro each from SKF Bearings.
Dealership wanted around 50 + VAT for each !
That is completly true. I bought a complete kit from england. To my suprice it came with 4 idler insted of 2 idlers and 2 tensioners. Didn't like the idea of pressing the old ones off so I got 2 new tensioners with the metal mount for around £ 50 each. The idlers are pretty cheap. I had a cambelt failure because of one of the idlers so I'm not taking any chances with anything in that department.
My point is that you can still get the tensioners with the metal mont :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
again thanks for the info guys, it's awesome to know that even owning what seems to be a rare car that there is support out there :)

I think I willl lash out on the tensioners already on the mounts I'm hoping to finish this over the course of one weekend and will be changing the water pump which I hear requires some brute force to remove and that I should use some good grease to make an future swaps that little bit easier, I'm probably going to employ the services of my 6'7" brother (best tool to have sometimes) for that portion of the opertion.

I'm going to contact turin imports for a price on belts, tensioners, idlers and water pump tomorrow, I'm hoping the alternator is ok as I'd like to get rid of as much of the whirring up the front end as possible, Ill get all new belts whilst I'm at it as well, although I'm considering removing the airconditioning system as I can't seem to even get the fan working though there is a relay that I can't seem to find that is somewhere under the gear shift? I took one piece of trim off but didn't find anything resembling a relay.

I'm really looking forward to getting it all apart haha!
I'll document the whole process with photos and possibly video for the brute force parts, it maybe a contender for funniest home videos.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Progress is underway to avoid expensive failure :)

Received pricing from Turin Imports $351.60 in total from memory, it's rather late and I can't be bothered adding up again.

Shipping would be on top I assume.

Timing belts 1.7 16v , $49.50 each retail , $45.00 each email price – due in end of the week.
Tensioners complete , $66.00 each retail , $60.00 each email – due in end of the week.
Idlers , $32.00 each retail , $28.80 each email – in stock.
Water pump , $92.40 retail , $84.00 email – in stock.
 
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well done for jumping in and tackling it yourself mate,

this was the first mechanical job i did on my own 16v too a while back,

my water pump was so loud you can hear it over my exhaust in a sound clip i did, i think i had the most life out of it i could without implosion!!!

trouble is, i took the car off the road to do the water pump, did the belts n stuff whilst i was at it, then thought oh well, i might as well do a total renovation now i'm this far, and its Johnboys fault!

whilst my bumper was off doing the above little job, someone mentioned a series 2 veloce bumper, and the rest is (not quite yet) history.....

however, its a satisfying job to do yourself, water pump and timing belts, johnboys description is a good'un, and don't worry too much about getting something wrong, as you can turn the engine over pretty easily from the crank pulley nut to check all your timing over as much as you like before going for the key and hearing any clatters!!

getting the water pump out was my biggest issue, probably about 2 hours to finally remove it, after puller, tap type persuaders (hammers!), lube, heat, and a combination of all the above finally got the thing rocking and then moving and then out!

i have heard of some people resorting to a chisel to crack the thing, and get the water pump to break up and collapse in on itself, and i have to admit, if i didn't get an encouraging rock on it after about an hour, i would have had to do just that i fear.

good luck, hope it goes well.

shrew


ps - i like the rims mate, nice looking wheels...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
it may be obvious but I'd need to remove plugs to drop compression so it will turn over easily?

Also there should be no noise when cranking over by hand? or crank it over before changing anything and listen out for anything unusual?

For the wat pump I plan to employ my 200cm 100kg older brother! hitting the old pump with a blow torch is ok though?

Awesome there being this much support online, It seems for cars that mechanics like working on, the online community contains a lot of children. No mechanic wants to touch the 33 yet the online community is a bunch of people wanting to work together.

I want to change my rear muffler to something louder, are there any reccomendations from you guys as per specs so I could get one here rather than shipping from the continent, postage seems to be a killer, although I really would like a crossover manifold and then do a complete system.

Cheers again.
Dom.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
the rims are Simmons OM16

Custom made 3 piece, They only make a few styles of wheels but most are quite pleasing.
Some of the 16 inch varieties have the same centre as a 15 with a much bigger dish, can look quite tough!
 

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very nuice wheels fella.

as for the crossover manifold and performance system, all i can say is,

here we go again!!!! ha ha!!


this has been discussed an awful lot here on this forum, and certsin designs have been examined, built and tried.

have a quick search in the 33 section for crossover manifold and you'll find it i'm sure.


the thread died some time ago, or was killed more to the point, but thats political so we shan't go there, but not the overall interest off forum, many folk are still planning variations of exhaust design, including improved manifold layouts, and although the availablity of such items seems scarce, they are in fact still available through a number of routes.

search the thread out and it will all make sense, and should make reasonably interesting reading.

in the meantime, have a look at this.

this is my own 16v cloverleaf with my first layout design, no centre silencers, a slightly straightened final route, and one straight through resonator rear silencer with 2.5" rolled back tip, as per the good old days!

we tested it for volume too because some lads wanted to know wether it would conform to race/track day reg's, which it did.

enjoy the clip, but you'll have to excuse the engine noise, that was my water pump on its absolute last legs!!!!

My Alfa 33 1.7 16V with PetrolHeadParts Crossover and System - YouTube

shrew
 
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briefly back to thewater pump/engine work

if you remove the plugs, and yes it would be best to (good luck with that!) and turn it over by crank pulley, you will here the valve movements sucking and wheezing, but not much else,

and be careful about where you hit what area and with what temperatures.

the pump casting is only cheap alloy, so the moment you hit that with heat, it can expand and grip even tighter in the hole, best to gently heat the surrounding casting to try to get that to open up the bite for you, or you can make matter worse.

for access i assume you're dropping the bumper and radiator off?

your brother sounds useful to have around for a jiob requirong some gristle, but i'll bet his hands are too big to get a decent grip on anything, especially once it warm! ha ha!

its more a game of patience and persistence, unless you get sick of it and decide to collapse the water pump with hammer and chisel of course, but then you really don't know where some of those bits might be going so that really is a last resort, in fact, forget i mentioned it, again!

cheers

shrew
 

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Discussion Starter #19
again thanks for all the info, had a busy day at work today so I only got to read briefly about the crossover manifolds. It's more than I think my manifold has a split in it near the 2 - 1 collector as when it's cold it sounds like broken open pipes! calms down considerably as soon as it's up to temperature (though my thermostat is stuck open so that can be a rarity at night) I think my cat has been removed and replaced with a centre silencer, I'm unsure as to what the stock configuration is. One exhaust shop refused to look any further until replacing the cat which was going to cost $1200 (car was $2200, I'd fit an ebay special before doing anything crazy like that)

Good to know the pump will melt if heat is applied as that portion of the task is the one that is worrying me slightly.

And yet dropping radiator and bumper, was going to leave the bonnet on as I've had issues realigning italian cars in the past (fiat 125, possibly no two bonnets the same! haha)

The big brother is a large tool! though he does have some problems with tight spaces (he outright refused to work on my toyotas haha)

And i thought my water pump was noisy, I've been only driving when needed but I think i've been inspired to go on a long cruise this weekend haha.

Shall read those crossover posts more thoroughly tonight!
 
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stock configuration is to pair the manifold exits as they neighbours on the car, so the left cylinder head exhausts are paired, and then the right are paired, and come together into a 4 - 2 collector, the performance version is scaled up to proper sizes, and the primary and secondary pipes are tuned and equal lengths rather than Alfa's any length will do, which is why they have the triangle bow out to waste length to become the same dimension as the front primaries which have further to go

such as...

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn210/shrewiside/Alfa 33 stuff/DSC_0695.jpg


as opposed to a crossover which pairs the opposite cylinders in an attempt to use the firing order differently to improve scavenge and pressures at the exhaust valve exits

such as...

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn210/shrewiside/Alfa 33 stuff/DSC_0465.jpg



if you read the thread you will find fans in both camps, but in brief, the crossover design can work well, but at the cost of ground clearance, and unproven to work any better than a performance version, which is an equal and tuned length build of the stock layout, which has no ground clearance issues, and just about everybody who races a boxer engined car uses this layout, not a crossover, which says quite a lot :thumbs:

up to you though, there is benefit over standard in both designs, but i personally will be building an equal length stock layout for mine next.

cheers

shrew
 
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