Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I want to put a cluster of the non-fl 147 to the FL 147. The cluster that i am putting in has more miles than the one that i have. What can i do since proxy allignment allows only to add mileage. I read somewhere that swapping over chip 93C86 on the back of the cluster can preserve mileage.

:byebye:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,257 Posts
I want to put a cluster of the non-fl 147 to the FL 147. The cluster that i am putting in has more miles than the one that i have. What can i do since proxy allignment allows only to add mileage. I read somewhere that swapping over chip 93C86 on the back of the cluster can preserve mileage.

:byebye:
Yep, youre correct, I ve done it before, worked a treat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,911 Posts
Are you swapping it because your original cluster is broken?
If it's just for the shrouded binnacles then the front sections are interchangeable so you can use you original dials with all the mileage etc on it and just clip the old style front bit on.

If yours are broken then ignore the above.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
So it goes like this:

I had my instrument cluster which was working properly but didn't have a board cumputer and I didn't really liked the looks of it. So I picked up cheaply an older style of the instrument cluster (from the non-facelifted 147) which had a broken dial for the gas and coolant temperature. So knowing that parts are interchangable I swapped over the dials for the gas and coolant temp from my cluster. Now, the only problem is the flashing mileage and the incorrect mileage since the board that I installed has more mileage than the original one. I tried the proxi alignment with the multiecuscan but it does not worm, when it gets to write the dashboard NOD it times out, I was told that proxi alignment should be done with an original diagnostics tool, not multiecuscan or equivalent. Also multiecuscan could not connect to the instrument cluster directly (probably because there is no proxi alignment). Also, when connected to the body computer, there is a fault code for CAN communication (again probably because it needs a proxy alignement).

That would be it. My problem now is that I cannot find the chip that I need to swap from the other board. Could someone tell me how can I find it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,257 Posts
Does replacing the chip stops the mileage from flashing and eliminates the need to do the PROXI alignment?
It does, but I swapped the chip in 2 dashes from identical cars, I am not sure that it will stop flashing if its from a later or earlier cluster, I did read on here that it did not for someone and I decided it was probably because the clusters were different (there are about 3 types, they look virtually identical). Still, if it still flashes but displays the correct mileage, you are at least better off than you were before. As its a different cluster its probably flashing because its a node on the system that was not programmed in by the factory and you will never be able to stop it flashing with software only with replacing the BC with one identical in everyway apart from the cluster which is unlikely or by putting in some sort of delay timer as you do to retrofit Connect Nav. This delays the unprogrammed node from being turned on until after the BC has done its checks which should prevent the mileage from flashing, whether this method will work with an instrument cluster, though, is unknown.

You can mark the chips on the image
I ve edited your picture and attached, but I think the picture youve uploaded is from your car without the central LCD display because I have dismantled dashboards from 147s from 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2008 and none have a board quite the same as that and in the UK we only got cars with the LCD display. On the board in your pic there is nothing where chip 93c86 is on all the boards I ve seen, so It appears that cars without the central LCD have 93c86 in a different location, assuming they dont store mileage in a different chip altogether. Look in the same place on the board with the central display and you should find it, it has 8 pins, the writing is very hard to read, but at least if you find it you know what youre looking for on the board with the central LCD.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
It does, but I swapped the chip in 2 dashes from identical cars, I am not sure that it will stop flashing if its from a later or earlier cluster, I did read on here that it did not for someone and I decided it was probably because the clusters were different (there are about 3 types, they look virtually identical). Still, if it still flashes but displays the correct mileage, you are at least better off than you were before. As its a different cluster its probably flashing because its a node on the system that was not programmed in by the factory and you will never be able to stop it flashing with software only with replacing the BC with one identical in everyway apart from the cluster which is unlikely or by putting in some sort of delay timer as you do to retrofit Connect Nav. This delays the unprogrammed node from being turned on until after the BC has done its checks which should prevent the mileage from flashing, whether this method will work with an instrument cluster, though, is unknown.



I ve edited your picture and attached, but I think the picture youve uploaded is from your car without the central LCD display because I have dismantled dashboards from 147s from 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2008 and none have a board quite the same as that and in the UK we only got cars with the LCD display. On the board in your pic there is nothing where chip 93c86 is on all the boards I ve seen, so It appears that cars without the central LCD have 93c86 in a different location, assuming they dont store mileage in a different chip altogether. Look in the same place on the board with the central display and you should find it, it has 8 pins, the writing is very hard to read, but at least if you find it you know what youre looking for on the board with the central LCD.
Thank you for your detailed answer. I will try and disasemble the board with the LCD display for the weekend and see what are the differences. I was not succesfull in finding the chip in the area that you have marked. Probably next month when I get my pay I will go to a certified Alfa mechanic that will do the proxi alignment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thank you for your detailed answer. I will try and disasemble the board with the LCD display for the weekend and see what are the differences. I was not succesfull in finding the chip in the area that you have marked. Probably next month when I get my pay I will go to a certified Alfa mechanic that will do the proxi alignment.
Also what bugs me is that i cannot connect to the instrument cluster via CAN, it times out, also when doing proxi alignment, writing to dashboard NOD timed out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,164 Posts
Your PCB seems to differ from what typos1 referring to and I have a picture of (147 1.6 / 2002), the clip in the picture is connected to the 93C86, your picture is a bit blurry so it is hard to see but where I have put red dots on my picture you seems to have chips with the right leg count (8) of the chip, so one of the red dots presumably is a 93C86.

I did a proximal alignment with FiatECUScan on the car then the odometer was flashing after replacing the instrument cluster and it worked out well.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,257 Posts
Thank you for your detailed answer. I will try and disasemble the board with the LCD display for the weekend and see what are the differences. I was not succesfull in finding the chip in the area that you have marked. Probably next month when I get my pay I will go to a certified Alfa mechanic that will do the proxi alignment.
You cant see one there because as I said there isnt one !! Likely because the non LCD display has a different board, look on the used board you have from a car with the LCD and you will find one - GTV-TB posted a pic of the board from the instruments with the LCD display.

You are looking at (hopefully) getting the mileage correct, but NOT stopping the flashing mileage display even with re-alignment - I m pretty certain it will flash after proxy alignment because the cars BC was not programmed to take this instrument cluster at the factory. Therefore as I said, you will have to look at wiring in some sort of delay timer so the CAN Bus system does not see the instrument cluster when it does its start up checks, this is what is done to retro fit Connect Nav, but it may not work because NOT seeing an instrument cluster would probably cause the BC to throw up an error, whereas if it doesnt see a retro fitted Connect Nav system there would be no error generated. I guess a way round this would be to somehow connect the board form the original instruments with the 93c86 swapped with the one from the other car and hide it somewhere, then have some sort of timer device that allows the BC to see the original board initially, but then after a certain period of time (usually about 4 secs) switch to the new board. This woudl fool the BC into thinking that the instruments are the original ones and if youve swapped the 93c86 chips, then the mileage would be correct.

I may be wrong but I pretty sure I m not, I hope I am and it works for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Hi! I know it's a 4 year old topic, but my question is very relevant, so I hope you don't mind asking it here. I've just bought a 2005 GT for the missus, so obviously pre-fl interior. Question is, can an instrument cluster from a Blackline GT be fitted (physically), will all the dials, lights etc work, and is it possible to keep the actual mileage displayed? I read something about swapping a chip above, but it's a little bit too complex for me :) I do have a handy mechanic, but I need to know if it's possible at all and if yes, what to do, he won't be able to figure it out by himself.

Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Hi! I know it's a 4 year old topic, but my question is very relevant, so I hope you don't mind asking it here. I've just bought a 2005 GT for the missus, so obviously pre-fl interior. Question is, can an instrument cluster from a Blackline GT be fitted (physically), will all the dials, lights etc work, and is it possible to keep the actual mileage displayed? I read something about swapping a chip above, but it's a little bit too complex for me :) I do have a handy mechanic, but I need to know if it's possible at all and if yes, what to do, he won't be able to figure it out by himself.

Thanks!
Yes it is possible, although much easier if you find a cluster that has lower mileage than yours. Then it is as simple as fitting a cluster, do a proxy alignment, and adjust the mileage with multiecuscan. The trick is that you can only add mileage, not decrease it, to prevent malversation. If you end up getting a cluster that has higher mileage than yours, you will have to find a "specialist" to lower the mileage and that business is illegal. Let me know if you have any questions.

Best
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Thank you very much for the prompt answer. And sorry for basically asking again, I just want to be 100% sure I'm getting this right.
941742
941743


The one on the right does fit into our car (shown on the left) physically, without having to do some serious mods, so basically it's a bolt-out/bolt-in job?

Everything's clear now about the odometer, thanks very much!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,257 Posts
Yes, its bolt in, there are some minor differences between clusters though (such as the positioning of the cruise warning light - in the mileage readout LCD on older versions, in the speedo on newer versions and other minor differences) and I m not sure if the newer and older versions can be swapped as never tried it.

If you dont fancy soldering or cant find a dash with a lower mileage as frosty984 suggested another option is simply to remove the needles and swap the dial faces.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Thank you very much for the prompt answer. And sorry for basically asking again, I just want to be 100% sure I'm getting this right. View attachment 941742 View attachment 941743

The one on the right does fit into our car (shown on the left) physically, without having to do some serious mods, so basically it's a bolt-out/bolt-in job?

Everything's clear now about the odometer, thanks very much!
Coreect. You can swap even the front facia to get the "3 tunnels" on the new dash. I have swapped a non-fl to an fl and all worked except the mileage since it had more miles than my original. Just swapping the graphics from the blackline would not work because the blackline has white backlight and the old one has red backlight. The white backlight is what makes the difference.

You can just plug the new one right know and everything will work but the mileage display will flash because you have not programmed the new dashboard to the body computer (proxy alignment with the MES).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,257 Posts
Just ed
Coreect. You can swap even the front facia to get the "3 tunnels" on the new dash. I have swapped a non-fl to an fl and all worked except the mileage since it had more miles than my original. Just swapping the graphics from the blackline would not work because the blackline has white backlight and the old one has red backlight. The white backlight is what makes the difference.
I have also put the "tunnels" on the newer dash, it looks much nicer.

However you are incorrect to say that swapping the only graphics "would not work" - it DOES work, I have done it and so have others, it works fine, you get red back lighting instead of white - red works as well as white, the "diiference" as you put it (or more correctly "differences") over the previous cluster type to the very final type, are the white LEDs and the instrument graphics, and the white LEDs will work with the older graphics just as the older LEDs work with the newer graphics. What you choose to do it is simply down to personal taste.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top