Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I recently purchased a 155TB on 16s (195/55x16) and so far I’m disappointed with it on the ‘twisty bits’ with the car ‘lurching’ in the corners. When I checked the tyre pressures they were ‘off’ but not by much with the passenger front at 25lbs. The rest were a shade under 30lbs. Anyway I’ve increased the pressures all round.

The front are shod with Hankook Ventus Prime2 and the rears with Michelin Excellence. The rears are a mix of ratings of V and H (can’t explain this) and are dated ’08 so they would appear to be an original fit. The fronts aren’t OEM don’t appear to be as fresh and are ‘newer’. I’m guessing these might be the problem.

Car has 20K miles on it and measuring the thread depth they are around 7mm – as one fitter said the rears are like new (can't undertand this) and the fronts are grand. They couldn’t explain why the Hankook were crap since they have become an OEM on the high end cars. But then they said they were ‘a bit above budget’.

I had a set of Continental Contact 2s in 16x195/45 on a 500 and they were brilliant in comparison to an earlier 500 on very average Nero tyres. The only drawback with them was I was getting around 2mpg less but they were much more sure footed.

It would appear that there’s a poor choice in 16s since the Prius and the Almera use this particular size tyre ! Did look for a set of Michelin Pilot / Exaltos which I would rate as possibly one of the highest having experienced them on a A500 esseese in 17s. These were in a different league to the Pirelli P0s. Unfortunately they are not made in 16s.

Looking at other makes the Continental Contact 3s do not seem to have appeared yet but they are being discounted in their Contact 2 ‘variant’ at around €108 (supply - without a protection bead rim). Of the Bridgestone types the RE050A would be my preferred choice over the ER300 and would be happy to lose the comfort for better performance. The RE050A are around €136 (supply).

My requirements are 1. Grip (keeping the power down in the 155TB). 2. Not ‘lurching’ i.e. delayed re-action on ‘turning in’ (tyre walls might be a bit soft - happening even in Dynamic mode with qe-2 on). 3. Wet braking / no aquaplaning (current tyres seem OK on this). Happy to lose ‘less rolling resistance’ and ‘snow performance’. Contis were OK in the white stuff but the Bridgestones I hear are useless but I could live with that.

To cut costs I would consider ‘dropping’ to a H rated tyre (up to 130mph) from a V. Realise that this might be illegal on an autobahn since one of the requirements is that you should have tyres that are of a speed rating that match the top speed. Would forego the protection bead if I had to.

Typical of a male would like a bargain / value tyre. Would consider just doing the front tyres providing I can get the exact same ones for the rear in another 6 months. The local tyre outfits are giving a price of €116-€140 ! for ER300, €80 for Minerva & €150 for Contis. Will probably end up sourcing them from eirtyres portal (part of the mytyres.co.uk) where I can get ‘free’ delivery since I’m based in Ireland. Current exchange rates for £ to € are brutal. Tempted to go for a discounted set of Conti Contact 2s (even though they would be ‘old’ stock) but guess that I might be better off getting a set of RE050s.

I have originally planned to convert the 16s into a set of winter wheels and getting a set of those Veloce 17 inch wheels secondhand. But given the weather change (no winters here at the moment) I might be better sticking with the one set.

Very interested to hear feedback for individuals on 16s and in particular from anyone who has fitted the RE050s in that size. Also - is it worthwhile splashing out on a set of replacement tyres just for the front or all round ? Or am I just wasting my money ?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,079 Posts
Dropping to an "H" rated tyre is only allowed for Winter tyres, it isn't just illegal in Germany, it applies everywhere.
You are unlikely to save any money that way anyway!

So to sum up, you have miss-matched tyres across the back axle and different tyres front-rear and it doesn't handle right...

You need a matching set of four (with a least a "V" rating).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,383 Posts
In my experience of several Mito loan cars I would suggest the model does drive a bit floaty even on 17s.The electric steering adds to the impression which is only confused by the impression of it having hard suspension .With bizarre collection of tyres on yours it cannot be at its best or even legal.I drove a humble spec recently on 16s and it had better ride and damping than earlier examples .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Dropping to an "H" rated tyre is only allowed for Winter tyres, it isn't just illegal in Germany, it applies everywhere.
You are unlikely to save any money that way anyway!

So to sum up, you have miss-matched tyres across the back axle and different tyres front-rear and it doesn't handle right...

You need a matching set of four (with a least a "V" rating).
Yesterday the tyre outfits were quite prepared to sell me a set of H rated tyres stating that I didn't need the V rated. Wiki had a 'bit' about using a sticker to remind one of the maximum speed inside in the car when you have winters on - can't see many actually doing that. Checking the handbook it does state "V" for the Petrol turbos so I would be in breech of manufacture's spec. That 'H' rated Goodyear are technically illegal. Thank you for your input.

German autobahns - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The tires must be approved for the vehicle's top speed; winter tires (mud + snow) for lower speeds (i.e. cheaper than high-speed tires) are allowed, the driver has to have a sticker in the cockpit reminding of the maximum speed.


In my experience of several Mito loan cars I would suggest the model does drive a bit floaty even on 17s.The electric steering adds to the impression which is only confused by the impression of it having hard suspension .With bizarre collection of tyres on yours it cannot be at its best or even legal.I drove a humble spec recently on 16s and it had better ride and damping than earlier examples .
I did strongly consider getting a set of Koni FSDs (they are now reduced in price to £495) but quite a few are being recalled on the A500s so I've held off. I also wondered why Alfa opted for the Koni Sports on the MA 135 instead of the FSDs.
Re the legality of the tyres the only area that I would be in breech of is the H rated tyre on the rear. This car was purchased off the 'Approved Alfa Used car list' only 2 weeks ago so it would have to be 'road worthy'. If I went back to the Alfa garage they would probably just 'run me'.
One of the tyre guys did state that the thread pattern was more sporty on one of them but it was probably just BS me.:)

EDIT: Added in the "H" rated tyre (still can't figure out how it ended up on the car since it's supposedly an OEM fit) and the thread pattern of the Hankook on the front and the Good year on the back)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
961 Posts
Dropping to an "H" rated tyre is only allowed for Winter tyres, it isn't just illegal in Germany, it applies everywhere.
You are unlikely to save any money that way anyway!

So to sum up, you have miss-matched tyres across the back axle and different tyres front-rear and it doesn't handle right...

You need a matching set of four (with a least a "V" rating).
IIRCC the sticker for winter reifen in Germany is 210 KMH so plenty fast enough all year round for us, but in Germany there has to be rules or they couldn't function.
 
T

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
The speed rating increase gives a stronger tyre, which may be specified for acceleration characteristics of the car, not just continuous high speed.

Sounds to me like someOne replaced a punctured oem tyre early on with cheaper variant , then probably wouldn't pay for good pair up front when worn out...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
The speed rating increase gives a stronger tyre, which may be specified for acceleration characteristics of the car, not just continuous high speed.

Sounds to me like someOne replaced a punctured oem tyre early on with cheaper variant , then probably wouldn't pay for good pair up front when worn out...
Yesterday I looked for a V rated 195/55 x 16 and there wasn't one in the country. To get one in would take roughly a week in the case of Continental and possibly a month in the case of Bridgestone and they couldn't get the RE050 variant (even if they could they would be more expensive). It explains why the H rated tyre ended up on the car since it only has a space saver. The price of the V rated in the Conti 2 was a crazy €175.

The Hankooks were 'put' on by the Dealer when the fronts wore out. It might have been a case of poor tracking that had prematurely worn the tyres out. When the OH was having her MiTO MJ serviced last November they offered to put on Kumho at a resonable price. We ended up getting a set of UniRoyal Rainsport 2 which has surprisingly turned out very well. Including the results from the EVO summer tyre test for 2011 which was on 17s...

Evo Summer Test 2010 | Car Tyres, Van and Alloy Wheels

I am beginning to think that I would be better off with 17s (like the OHs) and opt for the slightly smaller 205/45 size which is listed in the manual.

Prices of these tyres seem comparable with the 16s in the premium V rated brand. At least it will have the footprint to deal with the power delivery from the 155TB.

If anyone has upgraded to 17s from 16s or opted for a performance tyre like the Conti on the 16 - I would be very interested in hearing your opinion.

I do like the look of the 'Turbine' 18 inch wheel on the new Cloverleaf but they are probably mad money.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,374 Posts
we have a mito 1.4 (95) and changed from 215/45/17's to 205/45/17's and it certainly made the ride less harsh. I suspect it's the load index that makes the two tyres behave differently - so make sure you get the right load index tyres for your car: 215/45/17 is a popular size, whereas 205/45 isn't, but most on sale are XL - which is way more than the Mito needs, so you end up with very stiff tyres on a light car, with harsh suspension. You just know what that's going to do! There is a thread on it just search the tyre sizes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
You can pick up the polished/black turbine's wheels for around 550-600 off eBay. Then for quality tyres your looking around 600-700 on top. Cheap hankook, falkens can be had for 400-500 though. Intrested in this thread with tyre opinions, as my pzero nero are getting to the end of their life. Think I'm going to go for Toyo t1r or conti 2's. Was sold on the Dunlop sp1 sports that are STD fit on the QV with good reviews but changed my mind when O saw dunlop stated there only for summer use and not to be driven in snow or ice :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,471 Posts
This could be of some interest:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/total_tyre_guide/259582/tyre_test_2011.html

I've got the Pirellis on mine and they are brilliant in my opinion. They have so much grip. They came third overall, but came first in the wet and although the Goodwoods and Michelins finished above them, they both arnt that great when it comes to road noise, so for me the Pirellis are best. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
This could be of some interest:

Tyre Test 2011 | Products | Auto Express

I've got the Pirellis on mine and they are brilliant in my opinion. They have so much grip. They came third overall, but came first in the wet and although the Goodwoods and Michelins finished above them, they both arnt that great when it comes to road noise, so for me the Pirellis are best. :)
Tests can vary between the different sizes. The autoexpress was using 225/45 x 17 and given the range of cars that they were tested on they probably had different load ratings. My OH had the Pirelli P0s 215/45 x 17 on a MJ 1.6 and they lasted 34K miles ! I wasn't really a fan of them but a lot of track guys like the stiff wall on them. She had now replaced them with Uniroyals (down to price & availability) and did well in the 2010 Autoexpress test coming 2nd but they would not be my choice.
I did a back to back test on a set of Michelin Exaltos / Pilots (A500SS) against a Pirelli P0 on 205/40 x 17 (A500) and the Michelins were in a different league. They are also the standard fit on a esseesse A500 and give better grip than the P0s which are on the standard 17s. One of the drawbacks of having better grip is that you get less wheel spin but it is also harder on the gearbox. With the 95 model you wouldn't be having problems in that department.
The Continentals are known for being made in a lighter weight so have less unsprung weight so will feel lighter in the hands. IMHO they are a better touring tyre and have had a lot of firsts. The '2' model is now being superseeded by the '3' model. Since the side wall is not as stiff as the P0 or the T1R or even the Yohos (good value summer dry tyre) they IMHO would not be ideal for track. A criticism of the Contis was that they wear fast but they have been addressing that with the very new ones. They also had a high'ish' rolling resistance.
Some guys in the know rank the Good year very high but they have traditionally have had a high rolling resistance but the one reviewed on autoexpress has done well in that area.
If I had to rank in the 17s for road use I would inclined to vote in this order: 1. Michelins 2. Conti 3. Good year.

In the 16s the Contis would still be my first choice as a Touring tyre...
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-Finnish-ECO-Touring-Tyre-Test.htm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
461 Posts
I Hav I Have 18in's on mine and it's not the best to be honest... They wear quite considerable and rub. I would go for 17in's if I was to go for more on the performance tyre.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,374 Posts
Have a look at the load index for the 215's - it shouldn't be an XL tyre according to the handbook, but the tyres they fit at the factory are! This makes the car feel different between 205/45/17 and 215/45/17, because the 215's in XL are designed to take a load of about 15% more, making the sidewall much stiffer than is necessary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Resurrecting this thread as opposed to starting a new thread since it's still relevant.

Hit a pot hole yesterday and 'burst' the front tyre - the Hankook. :( Probably a blessing in disguise.

Since I looked last there are some new tyres on the market in 16s that were not there last year e.g. the Conti 5s.

Dunlop have brought out a new one called Sport BluResponse 195/55 R16 87V which I can get from Eiretyres for €118 delivered. Has excellent 'grades' with an A for wet braking and a B for fuel consumption. Winner of an autotest. Not too sure if there are classified as a touring or a performance tyre ?

Local fastfit has a Dunlop SP SPORT 3000A 195/55 R16 87V and they will offer them to me for €125 apiece balanced etc - so that would a quicker solution. Some mixed reviews on them but they look good.

Could import a set of Uniroyals from Camskill for £63 (€75).
There is also a 'new' make called Achilles ATR Sport which are listed cheap but only Pneus online seems to have stock of them at a higher price of €73 delivered which are not really worth it at.

Does anyone have any experience of the 'new' Sport BluResponse and how would they be different to the 'older' SP SPort 3000A ?

Have come to appreciate the lower noise of the 16s compared with the OHs noisey 17inch Uniroyals. Would like to negate the understeer effect that I was getting in the Hankooks and ideally would prefer a stiffer walled profile sacrificing a bit of comfort. But would like the bit of quietness as well. :eek:

Appreciate any inputs.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top