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Hi all

After having the GT remapped last summer, the clutch is beginning to feel the effects of my heavy right foot...I just can't help myself at times it's too much fun!

I know this topic will have been done to death on here, however things change and would rather not miss out on any new info which might help me make a better decision.

Obviously I realise I need an uprated clutch, as a minimum, in order to handle the massive torque increase from the remap. But do I need a Stage 2 or Stage 3? I haven't got a torque figure (might be able to get some numbers from Autolusso), but at present my remap is at about 200bhp. I might end up getting this ramped up a bit once I have a clutch that can handle it, so would like to cover up to around 225bhp...again will have to get accurate torque numbers off Autolusso.

Should I change the DMF whilst changing the clutch? Or should I go for a SMF? I see AL sell a converted clutch and SMF kit which was recommended for someone with a 225bhp remap.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfa-Rome...-Clutch-Kit-/331791042953?hash=item4d40498989

But comes with a bit of a disclaimer: "If you do not understand the possible implications and effects of removing a dual mass flywheel then we recommend you do not purchase this item. As it is a race-derived product no warranty or guarantees can be offered."

What is this relating to? Judder when pulling away due to SMF or more serious implications?

Is there a better option out there?

Also, what else is taking the brunt of the extra power/torque, and is it worth uprating/renewing any other bits while I'm on.

Currently on 84k miles, swirl flaps removed, EGR delete, hybrid turbo fitted.

Any help will be much appreciated :)
 

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Hi all

After having the GT remapped last summer, the clutch is beginning to feel the effects of my heavy right foot...I just can't help myself at times it's too much fun!

I know this topic will have been done to death on here, however things change and would rather not miss out on any new info which might help me make a better decision.

Obviously I realise I need an uprated clutch, as a minimum, in order to handle the massive torque increase from the remap. But do I need a Stage 2 or Stage 3? I haven't got a torque figure (might be able to get some numbers from Autolusso), but at present my remap is at about 200bhp. I might end up getting this ramped up a bit once I have a clutch that can handle it, so would like to cover up to around 225bhp...again will have to get accurate torque numbers off Autolusso.

Should I change the DMF whilst changing the clutch? Or should I go for a SMF? I see AL sell a converted clutch and SMF kit which was recommended for someone with a 225bhp remap.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfa-Rome...-Clutch-Kit-/331791042953?hash=item4d40498989

But comes with a bit of a disclaimer: "If you do not understand the possible implications and effects of removing a dual mass flywheel then we recommend you do not purchase this item. As it is a race-derived product no warranty or guarantees can be offered."

What is this relating to? Judder when pulling away due to SMF or more serious implications?

Is there a better option out there?

Also, what else is taking the brunt of the extra power/torque, and is it worth uprating/renewing any other bits while I'm on.

Currently on 84k miles, swirl flaps removed, EGR delete, hybrid turbo fitted.

Any help will be much appreciated
I wish this post got some comments as I would really love to know the answer. I too have swirlys removed, EGR deleted and a remap to 200bhp but had torque limited to 370nm as the original remap of 405nm was far too much for my clutch and it was slipping.

Would love to go back to the 405nm as it felt great but clutch decisions and advice are needed.

P.s. I have a Cloverleaf 170bhp (as standard model) but when I put in a part search it shows as 150 but is deffo the 170 model as I have sport button and wing Cloverleaf badges.

Anyway come on people link us to the best clutches without recommending anything that is going to make life unbareable like a SMF with paddle clutch, lol!
 

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Right in a nutshell here is my experiences.

Stage 1 organic fine for up to 190-200bhp great pedal feel oem style operation.

Stage 2 Twin fibre unit. Very harsh in operation and jerky in traffic, not pleasant for day to day driving trust me.

Autolusso fixed fly kit. Without doubt the answer for anything up to or after 200bhp and a heap of torque. Feels a little more grabby in traffic but absolutely nothing at all to worry about, and is fine to use in traffic and day to day driving. Added bonus is smf is so much lighter than the dmf and the engine revs freer too.

I have spent stupid money on clutches with my GT. And i firmly believe this is the option for the hybrid turbo cars. Have a word with Ned at Autolusso, he is selling this smf clutch kit as part of his hybrid turbo packages, and we know it works.

Damien.
 
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Right in a nutshell here is my experiences.

Stage 1 organic fine for up to 190-200bhp great pedal feel oem style operation.

Stage 2 Twin fibre unit. Very harsh in operation and jerky in traffic, not pleasant for day to day driving trust me.

Autolusso fixed fly kit. Without doubt the answer for anything up to or after 200bhp and a heap of torque. Feels a little more grabby in traffic but absolutely nothing at all to worry about, and is fine to use in traffic and day to day driving. Added bonus is smf is so much lighter than the dmf and the engine revs freer too.

I have spent stupid money on clutches with my GT. And i firmly believe this is the option for the hybrid turbo cars. Have a word with Ned at Autolusso, he is selling this smf clutch kit as part of his hybrid turbo packages, and we know it works.

Damien.
Lets hope so we are fitting yours on Friday :biglaugh::biglaugh:

Ned
 

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I'm with Damien on this one. I too have a SMF and in reality there's not much difference to using the standard dmf. Few more revs and the juddering is reduced. Low revs pulling away and you can feel the extra judder but once you're moving it's all good.
 

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I'm with Damien on this one. I too have a SMF and in reality there's not much difference to using the standard dmf. Few more revs and the juddering is reduced. Low revs pulling away and you can feel the extra judder but once you're moving it's all good.
Cheers mate. I drove a fixed smf car and never experienced any judder? My stage 2 duel fibre is horrendous in traffic. I know the smf set up will be much much better. What clutch are you using with dmf?

Damien.
 

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Do you mean with my SMF?? Ive been told it's a CG motorsports clutch other than that I'm none the wiser. The car was originally celtic tunings demo car. They've given me a little info but not a lot. There's a little judder if you don't use many revs (more so than a standard equipped dmf car)
You're more than welcome to try it if you fancy it, but looks like you're having the conversion soon anyway! :)
 

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Right in a nutshell here is my experiences.

Stage 1 organic fine for up to 190-200bhp great pedal feel oem style operation.

Stage 2 Twin fibre unit. Very harsh in operation and jerky in traffic, not pleasant for day to day driving trust me.

Autolusso fixed fly kit. Without doubt the answer for anything up to or after 200bhp and a heap of torque. Feels a little more grabby in traffic but absolutely nothing at all to worry about, and is fine to use in traffic and day to day driving. Added bonus is smf is so much lighter than the dmf and the engine revs freer too.

I have spent stupid money on clutches with my GT. And i firmly believe this is the option for the hybrid turbo cars. Have a word with Ned at Autolusso, he is selling this smf clutch kit as part of his hybrid turbo packages, and we know it works.

Damien.

Fantastic response, I have always thought that a SMF would be horrendous for daily use and end up knackering other parts of drive train due to increased judder, I may have to reconsider.

Is the Autolusso SMF kit with a clutch or just fly? If with clutch is that a stage 1?

Would love to hear your feedback after installation! :)
 

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Well experience is key here. And you can ask Ned what i have been through with this clutch saga.

Stage 2 dual fibre did eventually grip like poop to a blanket when properly worn in but the judder on take up was for me something i could, and would not be prepared to put up with in day to day. I felt it really compromised the flow and enjoyment of the whole drive.

The stage one organic was a great clutch, lovely feel and took quite a beating for a while, but eventually could not take the extra torque levels.

Ned is fitting an Autolusso fixed smf set up that will be used in his hybrid turbo packages. As previously mentioned i have driven a similar set up on a GT and it was really fine in traffic.
I also had a go in Craig's 2.4 5cld 156 with smf and stage 2 CG dual friction clutch and that was equally too harsh, like my present set up, for day to day enjoyable traffic use.

Having spent a package holiday for 2 in the Caribbean on this issue, i want other people in my position to have a direct route to what works, and the reality of the choices out there.

Will report back how my clover feels with the new unit. I will also be doing a track day in June, and hopefully a blast across France, which will be a good test.

Damien.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Really glad this has got a few responses now. Thanks for everyone's input :thumbup:

I understand, as I said in the initial post, that this subject has been done to death on here, over a number of years, but knowing there's a growing number of people with significant power/torque increasing remaps and hybrid turbo's, and with a few people already having tried and tested a few flywheels/clutches as well as being in the process of trying new flywheel/clutch combinations, I think it's good to get everyone's experiences and inputs in one place every once in a while.

Looking forward to hearing how the Autolusso SMF and GTA clutch kit goes. The only negative that seems to crop up with SMF conversion (generally I mean, not specifically the 147/GT) is the lack of vibration/torsional dampening and the subsequent effect on the longevity of the gearbox. Has anyone had this discussion and what were the thoughts on this?
 
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Really glad this has got a few responses now. Thanks for everyone's input :thumbup:

I understand, as I said in the initial post, that this subject has been done to death on here, over a number of years, but knowing there's a growing number of people with significant power/torque increasing remaps and hybrid turbo's, and with a few people already having tried and tested a few flywheels/clutches as well as being in the process of trying new flywheel/clutch combinations, I think it's good to get everyone's experiences and inputs in one place every once in a while.

Looking forward to hearing how the Autolusso SMF and GTA clutch kit goes. The only negative that seems to crop up with SMF conversion (generally I mean, not specifically the 147/GT) is the lack of vibration/torsional dampening and the subsequent effect on the longevity of the gearbox. Has anyone had this discussion and what were the thoughts on this?
I honestly do not think anyone has had the long term experience of running 200+ hard with smf. Autolusso use this set up in their sequential GTA and it can take some major abuse. So its a case of again time will tell, and give us the answers we need.
As you mentioned the whole tuning of the Alfa 1.9 jtd is starting to take off in greater number and some of the stages were unknowns. I think as with everything you have to give a certain amount of respect and mechanical sympathy. And everyone drives differently. Truth is the stage 2 duel friction units are too harsh for day to day driving. What we need essentially is an organic clutch that can take the torque of a tuned hybrid turbo'd 1.9jtd. But it does not exist. And the fixed smf is the best way and compromise forward at this 200+ power level.

Damien.
 
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I agree with that Damien..the stage one feels great but has a limited life span at those torque levels.

The mapping here is key. Any significant torque spikes will finish any clutch unit off in double quick time.

The GTA arrangement is going to be the best compromise but limits the power to the mid 200's maybe 260 is achievable without any issues but for how long is anyones guess.

For my part if the GTV I am seeing this week lives up to expectations I will have a Busso on the drive by monday. 220 BHP out of the box and a well tested engine and drive train designed to handle the power it produces.

I love my GT and will be sad to see it go but the Busso should see a smile on my face in no time!
 

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I believe mines been running 200+ and a solid flywheel for around four years. Is it the original clutch from four years ago is anyone's guess! I don't believe it's been changed in the last three years (after talking with the previous owner) I obviously can't help with how it is to live with long term. If it helps I will try and contact celtic again and see if they can remember which clutch it was that was put in???
 

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I agree with that Damien..the stage one feels great but has a limited life span at those torque levels.

The mapping here is key. Any significant torque spikes will finish any clutch unit off in double quick time.

The GTA arrangement is going to be the best compromise but limits the power to the mid 200's maybe 260 is achievable without any issues but for how long is anyones guess.

For my part if the GTV I am seeing this week lives up to expectations I will have a Busso on the drive by monday. 220 BHP out of the box and a well tested engine and drive train designed to handle the power it produces.

I love my GT and will be sad to see it go but the Busso should see a smile on my face in no time!
Am i loosing my wing man?..:angel:

As we discussed Joe, what Joel at JTD performance correctly said about the mapping and how important it is to iron out the peaks at the 3k mark. Its the only way to get decent power with this engine and having the clutch and transmission chance to cope..
I have to be brutal and say i am not at all sure about getting anywhere near 260 out of the car, full time reliably. I think a healthy well mapped transmission respectful 240 and 400-440nm would be fine. So with all due respect, i believe the hybrid turbo level is more than enough for a usable day to day long term solid machine. Especially something i want to use hard on track when the whim takes me. The idea here is having an all round balanced competitive reliable machine. Saying that on the 2nd of June i am joining my friends on track with their TTRS's..lol.

Really happy for you mate, i think the V6 GTV is the right move for you now you are doing less mileage. And having that sweet sweet busso music matching the beautiful exterior of your pride and joy will never get old. Fingers crossed for you this week.:thumbup:

Damien.
 

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Thanks mate!

Not losing your wingman just yet..the GTV looks a peach but I really do love my car and it will have to be special to match the handling anx all round balance of attributes of blackie.

Jury is out ,update as and when I test drive it..

If it doesn't grab me by the nads i'm staying !
 

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so

update,

the guy who was going to buy mine has placed a deposit on another GT, he wanted to leave me a deposit when he tried mine on weds morning but I was reluctant to proceed without finding a car to replace it with..

and the thing is I am actually relieved! I have realized whilst going through this process how emotionally attached I have gotten to my car and I also went through the spend..:paranoid: I am not going to reveal but i have spent again and a bit what i paid for the car way back in feb 15.

The result is a fantastic machine that I have enjoyed 36k in so far without a single breakdown or problem (bar the turbo VNT issue which was not the cars fault), I have been pro-active on the maintenance for sure but she has paid me back in spades with some really enjoyable driving..

So to celebrate my decision to keep the car I have just booked in a paintless dent guy to get rid of all car park dinks and will have booked a trimmer to sort leather bolster on the drivers side.

I have a mop and will also order some new clothes for it and some compound. so over the next month i will go round the car and deal with all of the stone chips by hand and then the dents will be sorted. then a thorough clay barring and clean and to finish bilt amber autobalm.

Then Damien I will take you up on the offer to refurbish my lights in the bat cave, never done that before so some help/advice the first time will be good.

the car will then be 100% perfect both mechanically and cosmetically.

I am really looking forward to this final little push :thumbup: and am in no doubt that keeping the car is the right decision. in the future should I find myself with space for two cars I will add to my GT with a Busso, but as an only car my GT is the only sensible choice.
 
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