Rear Subframe Rebuild

8044 Views 114 Replies 12 Participants Last post by Leebluegtv, 5 mo ago

Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · 8 mo ago

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Since getting the Spider about 5 years ago, I’ve been slowly collecting the bits I need to rebuild the rear suspension which I started today. I thought I’d document the progress on here adding to the thread as and when I do something. I’ve decided to go down the route of rebuilding a complete subframe and fitting it to the car rather than swapping parts in situ so the car will be off the road for the minimum amount of time.

First of all the parts you need. I’ve got the following…

Spring pans
V6 ARB and Powerflex bushes
Dog legs
Wheel bearings
Hubs
Refurbed brake calipers
Powerflex bushes
Brake hoses
Brake compensator
Subframe
Various nuts, bolts and washers etc
Eibach springs
Drop links
Ball joints
Brackets for handbrake cables, brake hoses, exhaust hangers etc

I’ll add to this list if I think of anything else I need

Still to buy…

Rear shocks
Rear discs

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Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #2 · 8 mo ago (Edited)

Bolt sizes.

All 10.9 tensile unless stated otherwise and all nuts are the thicker DIN 982 type unless otherwise stated.

Dog Leg
Inner M12 x 90mm x 1.25
Outer M14 x massive

Shock
Upper M10 x 80x 1.25
Lower M12 x 70mm x 1.25

Spring Pan
Inner M12 x 90mm x 1.25
Outer M14 massive

Wishbone
Subframe M12 x 70mm x 1.25
Ball joint/drop link bracket M10 x 40mm x 1.25

ARB
TBC

Tie Bar
Both M10 x 70mm x1.25

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Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #3 · 8 mo ago (Edited)

Torque Settings.

Dog Leg
Inner bolt 88-98
Outer bolt 185-205 Nm

Shock
Lower 79-98 Nm
Upper 59-72 Nm

Spring Pan
Inner 88-98 Nm
Outer 185-205 Nm

Wishbone
Inner (to subframe) 88-98 Nm
Outer (drop link/ball joint) 88-98 Nm

ARB
Brackets 15-21 Nm
Drop link 23-28 Nm

Tie Bar
Inner TBC
Outer 47-51 Nm
Lock nuts 59-73 Nm

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Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #4 · 8 mo ago

Prep.

The subframe I got had been sprayed with primer so I painted it with silver POR15 which I had in garage. I found the best way to get a good finish with it was to get plenty of paint on the brush, work it into any knocks and crannies then spread as thinly as possible.

Everything else got wire brushed and if bad enough soaked in vinegar or Deox-C. Both seem to do the same job but the vinegar is way cheaper but it stinks. Originally I planned to paint everything black and did them all with POR15 but later had a change of heart and went for red. I scuffed up the POR15 with sandpaper and put on a few coats of Hammerite smooth. The ARB was an eBay bargain and came powder coated with new Powerflex bushes.

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Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #5 · 8 mo ago

3

Odds and sods.

First thing I did was fit the exhaust hanger brackets. Not much to report here. I used stainless steel bolts as they don’t need to be a higher tensile strength like the bolts for suspension parts etc. I filled the holes with grease and covered the thread in grease to avoid future corrosion. I fitted a new rubber to the rear bracket.

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Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #6 · 8 mo ago (Edited)

4

ARB.

Fitting the ARB was again fairly straightforward… two nuts & bolts either side. Only thing to remember is to fit the brackets for the handbrake cable. I used old ones that were treated for rust and painted. Totally Alfa do new stainless ones.

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Spider95

· #7 · 8 mo ago

Useful thread. This is something I will need to do at some stage.

Once finished will be interested to know difference in handling with the V6 rear ARB. I have a new one in stock from Partsworld and the diameter is significantly larger than the TS/JTS version.

Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #8 · 8 mo ago

Spider95 said:
Useful thread. This is something I will need to do at some stage.

Once finished will be interested to know difference in handling with the V6 rear ARB. I have a new one in stock from Partsworld and the diameter is significantly larger than the TS/JTS version.

I’ve read that cutting roll at the rear reduces understeer so you are better off stiffening up the back than the front. It might be difficult to identify just how much difference it makes or what is causing any difference given that I’ll be putting on Eibach springs, all new bushes, drop links and shocks etc

Phase3dude

· #9 · 8 mo ago

The increased torsional rigidly of the larger arbs will make the ride firmer, even with standard springs and shocks......🍀🍀🍀

Spider95

· #10 · 8 mo ago

Nellytheroc said:
I’ve read that cutting roll at the rear reduces understeer so you are better off stiffening up the back than the front. It might be difficult to identify just how much difference it makes or what is causing any difference given that I’ll be putting on Eibach springs, all new bushes, drop links and shocks etc

Thanks.

The new ARB I have doesn't come supplied with the ARB bushes and the bracket which holds it into place. Did you use your existing bracket from the TS and just clean it up? If it fits with the Powerflex bush for the thicker ARB that's good news. It does come fitted though with the smaller support that fits next to each bush. I think the idea for these is to stop any potential movement. I think I might give this a try as I need to replace the two drop links anyway.

Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #11 · 8 mo ago

Spider95 said:
Thanks.

The new ARB I have doesn't come supplied with the ARB bushes and the bracket which holds it into place. Did you use your existing bracket from the TS and just clean it up? If it fits with the Powerflex bush for the thicker ARB that's good news. It does come fitted though with the smaller support that fits next to each bush. I think the idea for these is to stop any potential movement. I think I might give this a try as I need to replace the two drop links anyway.

The brackets and bushes etc all came with it. It arrived exactly as it is in the very fist photo on this thread. I’ve got a spare pair of TS bushes somewhere so I’ll dig them out and compare them for size.

Spider95

· #12 · 8 mo ago

Nellytheroc said:
The brackets and bushes etc all came with it. It arrived exactly as it is in the very fist photo on this thread. I’ve got a spare pair of TS bushes somewhere so I’ll dig them out and compare them for size.

Just had a look on EPER for models post 1998 which includes the V6 3.0/3.2 24v versions. There is only one bracket listed for both TS/JTS models and all V6 models, but there are two different bushes as you would expect. Presumably then the same bracket is used for all models on the ARB.

Also of interest is the V6 3.0/3.2 24v rear ARB is used in the Australian market for the TS/JTS models. Not only that the V6 3.0/3.2 24v springs are used as well. The front suspension is exactly the same as other TS/JTS models in other markets. Presumably the Australian importer must have asked for a stiffer set-up for the TS/JTS models in that market. On this basis I'm definitely going to try this 'upgrade' now.

Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #13 · 8 mo ago

Spider95 said:
Just had a look on EPER for models post 1998 which includes the V6 3.0/3.2 24v versions. There is only one bracket listed for both TS/JTS models and all V6 models, but there are two different bushes as you would expect. Presumably then the same bracket is used for all models on the ARB.

Also of interest is the V6 3.0/3.2 24v rear ARB is used in the Australian market for the TS/JTS models. Not only that the V6 3.0/3.2 24v springs are used as well. The front suspension is exactly the same as other TS/JTS models in other markets. Presumably the Australian importer must have asked for a stiffer set-up for the TS/JTS models in that market. On this basis I'm definitely going to try this 'upgrade' now.

Interesting. I’d definitely like to know how you get on swapping just the ARB. I’m replacing that many bits, it will be hard to pinpoint the exact cause of any improvements in handling. If you are doing the drop links… I’d advice getting a decent nut splitter to get the old ones off.

Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #14 · 8 mo ago (Edited)

3

Wishbones.

Just a bit of work on the wishbones this evening after work. I’ve already painted them so they just need the insides cleaning up ready for fitting the bushes. They still need a bit more work but they’re getting there…

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Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #15 · 8 mo ago

Spider95 said:
Just had a look on EPER for models post 1998 which includes the V6 3.0/3.2 24v versions. There is only one bracket listed for both TS/JTS models and all V6 models, but there are two different bushes as you would expect. Presumably then the same bracket is used for all models on the ARB.

Also of interest is the V6 3.0/3.2 24v rear ARB is used in the Australian market for the TS/JTS models. Not only that the V6 3.0/3.2 24v springs are used as well. The front suspension is exactly the same as other TS/JTS models in other markets. Presumably the Australian importer must have asked for a stiffer set-up for the TS/JTS models in that market. On this basis I'm definitely going to try this 'upgrade' now.

These are the TS ones… I think they are StrongFlex but not sure. The external dimensions look the same, just a smaller hole in the middle.

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Spider95

· #16 · 8 mo ago

Nellytheroc said:
These are the TS ones… I think they are StrongFlex but not sure. The external dimensions look the same, just a smaller hole in the middle.
View attachment 979613

Thanks. That makes sense with regard to just one bracket listed for all models!

Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #17 · 8 mo ago

Spider95 said:
Thanks. That makes sense with regard to just one bracket listed for all models!

The other bracket thing that stops lateral movement looks like it clamps round the ARB and should fit either size ARB.

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malc_chev

· #18 · 8 mo ago

2

The race is on... ;-)

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I've not been as thorough cleaning up the frame, I just degreased/scrubbed/jet washed it and was happy enough that it was clean. I don't like to go completely nuts restoring stuff as I like to be able to drive my cars without being scared of making a mess of them!

Getting it all apart was a pain, but I am really enjoying the rebuild. It's a really nice bit of engineering in my humble opinion. Thanks Nellytheroc for the detailed pictures as an additional reference.

All this is procrastinating from cleaning up the underside though!

And yes... I am working in my living room, yes, I live alone and no, I don't know how I am going to get it back out to the garage yet! 😂

Cheers,
Malc.

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Nellytheroc

Discussion Starter · #19 · 8 mo ago

malc_chev said:
The race is on... ;-)

View attachment 979672

View attachment 979673

I've not been as thorough cleaning up the frame, I just degreased/scrubbed/jet washed it and was happy enough that it was clean. I don't like to go completely nuts restoring stuff as I like to be able to drive my cars without being scared of making a mess of them!

Getting it all apart was a pain, but I am really enjoying the rebuild. It's a really nice bit of engineering in my humble opinion. Thanks Nellytheroc for the detailed pictures as an additional reference.

All this is procrastinating from cleaning up the underside though!

And yes... I am working in my living room, yes, I live alone and no, I don't know how I am going to get it back out to the garage yet! 😂

Cheers,
Malc.

Nice work… you’re a bit ahead of me but I’ll hopefully catch up a bit as mine only needs moving a couple of yards from the garage to the car. What bushes did you use? They look like Powerflex so any tips on getting them in?

WantAGTA

· #20 · 8 mo ago

Nellytheroc said:
Nice work… you’re a bit ahead of me but I’ll hopefully catch up a bit as mine only needs moving a couple of yards from the garage to the car. What bushes did you use? They look like Powerflex so any tips on getting them in?

Powerflex are super easy to get into the holes in the arms, a little silicone grease and they all push in by hand. The struggle (on a V6) is getting the bushes at the hub end all lined up, particularly the powerflex washers. V6 springs are longer and need a fair bit of compression to get the rear arms lined up, on the TS it is much, much easier as the spring is barely under any compression. I used an old long hub bolt, tapered the end then rounded the point, and inserted it the wrong way through the hub to line up the bushes, then fed the new bolt the correct way, hence pushing the alignment bolt out. This made sure the bushes, washers and hub were all in alignment. The bushes themselves don't pivot like factory items, so when the arms are past the natural position they sit in with the weight of the car, there is a fair amount of tension caused by the misalignment of the bushes (the sleeves are forced out of parallel in the bush) which can be a struggle. I have fitted them on a TS and V6 (both times subframe on the car), much much easier on the TS but still takes some fiddling.

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