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Update, my car's timing was out. Belts, idlers etc are all fine. Why was it out by a few degrees? The belt was removed and timing set and the rattling noise came back in a matter of days. We are now going to swop out the entire belt kit and variators...
Had similar problem on my 2014 GQV. For a month or 2 just rattle when cold start, then after a week w/o engine start, rattle was strong and car went into limp mode, when checked timing it was out of normal position.
The problem was intake variator's lock pin, same like SHADIN was having. When this pin is broken, camshaft rattle within variator's housing till oil pressure goes up, a matter of few seconds. I guess that at this period camshaft position sensor send an alert and this is the cause for temporary wrong shaft position.
After installing new variator all is OK, smooth starts w/o noise.
 

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Hi, this is a very interesting thread. Well, newbee here, but not in life :)
Read about many interesting things here, and decided to go for membership.
Lots of knoweledge I mis at the moment at the Lancisti forums.

I have changed both camshaft variators on my Lancia Delta III Di type 844. FCA TBi engine, regarding this issue.

Took some involvement. But the Delta needed a new cam belt, good time to resolve the rattle issue.

First checks. The actuators seemed to be okay. Checked outlet only, since that one made the noise.
No dirt in the piston, nor filters. All very clean. (Noticed some oil at the cable connector outlet actuator, have to re-check it, since could be spill during work on the engine.
When it leaks, than I have to change it...). Engine gets every 10K fresh 5W40 C3 and filter.

I do much of the work on my Delta myself, but did this job together with a very experienced Lancia mechanic in the Netherlands, since I felt not on solid ground in these 'new' seemingly complex matters.
Two people know, hear and see more... but all went swift and easely. + a great job to do.

Work followed up with; with changing the timing belt, all is fitted and tensioned as it should, then the engine needs to be revolved 360º to check the belt tensioners position-ponter is correct on spot. Normal procedure.
Turning it by hand via the crankshaft, we heard quite noticable clikking noises at the outlet variator-pulley. Didn't sound much trust worthy.
So we decided to ready the engine for a startup on just fresh new oil (5W40 C3) and oil filter, to listen and find fault.
Well, it rattled fiercely on the outlet side, quite harsh, like shaking a batch of marbles in a tin jar :) ... worse...
Noticed clearly the front variator as the culprit. Than the rattle faded away, but took some time.

After the pulley changes to new we had a new clean cold start up, all nice and quiet in a warm garage. Solved? Partially?!

Well... still with the cold weather remains this slow oil pressure build up, and warning light sign, and sometimes a slightly suspicious click.
Pressure warning takes about 10-20 secs to fade away, motor runs silent then on, even so when oil is still warm at restart, then there is no warning.
Still oil in the canals.

Reading more about the oil pressure issue, it seems to be pointing at a gasket-seal-oil-ring of the oil suction armature bolted to the body of the oil pump housing?
This issue needs to be tackeled shortly otherwise the variators could be damaged again?
But then, is it this shot gasket? Or is the presure build up to slow due to wear of the pump itself? Would a thinner oil work better 0W in stead of 5W because of a more easely build up during cold? For istance, the Fiat 500X 1.4 T-Jet uses a 0W oil?

Unbolting the oil pan gives access to the pump, then renew the seal. Or renew the complete pump?
Could such a pump wear out in 80-100k of driving?

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Photos: First; shows the crank pulley. The lid -with crank- seal contains the oil pump, and the suction tube for oil. To replace the whole ting it seems best to renew all seals.
Second; process of mounting the new pulley's and new camshaft oil seals. On both pulley's you find oil lids. Threaded and with a silicon rubber seal. De bolt to mount/dismount the pulley lies behind this cap. This bolt is also normaly threaded. Look closely at the bolt on the right pulley. Beware! These bots are thightened with 60 Nm and 27º extra deflection. A new water pump was mounted too, a 4C type upgraded type. Third: (not ont toppic) cooland bridge to gearbox and the thinner vacuum tube in a very sorrow rusty state. De vacuum tube porous and had to be remade out of copper brake pipe. The coolant bridge salvable, but only just. Parts were in backorder! (I am in search of a nice looking spare waterbridge pipe!) Fourth: refurbished and cleaned during rebuild of the motor...
 

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hello my friend. i have exactly the same cold start rattling only when the car stay off over the night. only for 2 sec and then all ok. do you find what the problem is?
 

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Mine has done this for the last 2.5 years and I took it to be a characteristic of the car to be honest, your mileage is similar to mine incidentally.

I haven't seen a check engine light or any other warnings come up though at the same time, had the codes read on a regular basis and nothing has ever shown up. It does only "rattle" momentarily on the first start after leaving it overnight but certainly doesn't sound like a worn TS variator. If I was guessing though I would imagine it absolutely is oil pressure/flow related, logic says it can't be anything else.

I'm up at Alfa Workshop next week for a service and will ask them, I've had the belts changed as well and it was present before and after.
hello my friend. i have exactly the same cold start rattling only when the car stay off over the night. only for 2 sec and then all ok. do you find what the problem is?
 

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hello my friend. i have exactly the same cold start rattling only when the car stay off over the night. only for 2 sec and then all ok. do you find what the problem is?
Αδερφέ το γρανάζι μεταβλητού (variator) είναι η η καδένα (αν είναι καδένα πρέπει να σου ανάψει check engine).Το αφήνεις και το παρακολουθείς ,αλλάζεις λάδια μια φορά το χρόνο,και βλέπεις πως θα πάει ,αν χειροτερεύσει πας για αλλαγή.
 

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I get this on my 2.2. Just on the first start of the day when the engine's cold. No more than a couple of seconds.
It seemed to start just after I had the timing chain swapped out. That was 5 years ago. I've not lost any sleep over it.

I had it on my GTV TS as well. With that it was a variator.
 

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The origin of the rattling... 1.8 TBi or Di engine.
A smart and stupid oil seal O-ring-sleeve construction.
Regard it as bad engeneering... FIAT. Strive for less parts and cutting cost.

Drive to long, and the variators will self destruct.

Rubber hardens in time by heat and aditives in the oil.
Cheap part and expensive to replace for non-DIY.

Plastic oil intake is pressed against the seal at mounting oil sump.
Fluid gastket is used to seal the sump. Loosening the sump is a bit of pressing with a lever and plastic hammering.

Hefty quarrel with the severely rusted flange bolts. Threads destintegrated. Hardend steel cost me a
lot of time te drill away and a lot of drills. Sadly there was no gas-wellder to heat up. Out of gas in the garage.
Exhaust to a lot of effort to fix. Way to much time.
 

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Oil sump looks like this, freshly removed from engine...
It has a plastic insert to dampen oil movement.

Oil pump-cover sits left on the engine. The pick up oil pump is in left low corner of the crankcase...
Construction shown above in picture...
 

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I did the one in my 2.0 JTDm….pretty straight forward apart from the "difficult to get at...but not impossible" bolts on the gearbox end of the sump which are partially covered by the bell housing casting. Eper says you need to remove exhaust and right hand driveshaft….you need to do neither. Just disconnect exhaust at bottom of DPF and it will drop enough to leave plenty of space to drop the sump. The driveshaft just needs its support unbolted from the engine. About 2 hours work in total. Would have been faster but I took nearly half an hour to break the factory seal between sump and block.....they use serious sealant at the factory!!! Fitting the new "oil pump to pick up" seal stopped the "Stop engine... low oil pressure" text from popping up on the dash for a few seconds at every cold start.
 

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Haha... that was my planning too :) Grrrrr.... didn't work out in time
But those pestering exhaust bolts needed renewal... so removed whole pipe as maintenance, fresh bolts.

Here the sump-part that is bolted to the gearbox...
Those two imbus bolts, hidden, need to be carefully mounted. or start fishing with a magnet.
U-shaped holes near the black back plate (sheet metal piece)... one just visible...

All do able... but hope photo's give a picture what to expect.

In the end... no more engine check light and no more rattling at cold start.

Was this all? Nope!
Now I have a code P1671 to solve! It has the hick-up's once in a while.
Keeps the car of the street and stretches my back. Pump, high-pressure pump, or one of the direct injectors.
Yesss... I love my Lancia 200 hp...
 

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Hello everbody,

I'd like to bump this topic up.

My 2010 TBi which 175k km on the clock has also developed this annoying rattle sound. As I understand, it is one of the chronic problems of TBi's.

Now, whenever I started the engine I heard this rattle sound about 5 sec and engine light appearing. Luckily, I got my own OBDII and I am able to delete the fault. Btw, the fault code is P0340 (Exhaust side)

Now, I read the whole topic but i'm still not sure if only variators or the oil pump is causing the problem.

I already bought a new complete oil pump. But if the problem is also related to the variators, I'd like to change them as well since I dont want to be charged for the second time to the timing chain removing.

I'll be glad if you could also help to me for the oem variators stock code.

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #98
Exhaust side caution is created by the exhaust camshaft beeing out of time too much. Probably because of the slack on the exhaust camshaft variator. Replacing both camshaft variators will solve your problems. Don't forget to order the oil seals located behind the camshaft variators as well!

Variators oem partnumbers:
55215215 and 55215216.
Oil seals:
2x 55195339
 

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Exhaust side caution is created by the exhaust camshaft beeing out of time too much. Probably because of the slack on the exhaust camshaft variator. Replacing both camshaft variators will solve your problems. Don't forget to order the oil seals located behind the camshaft variators as well!

Variators oem partnumbers:
55215215 and 55215216.
Oil seals:
2x 55195339
Thanks for reply & help mate.

I'm going to order the variators and seals this month.
 

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Did it work out?
I'm having the same issue, but the variators are alreay replaced. Still rattling, oil pressure warning and P0340. So I'm guessing I have to look at the oil sump gasket/seal as well?
 
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